Mother Screng

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by syarul, Oct 11, 2007.

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  1. hentaikamen

    hentaikamen Member

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    Thanks, I just realize that Otis' starting level is 10 so the effective average party level is ((5 * 5) + 10)/6 = 5.8333. The requirement is below level 6, isn't it? Or is it level 5 max? One of the party member is a Ranger, is it possible to lower the average party level if I let him summon an animal companion? Or should I level squat at level 4?

    I plan to recruit 3 NPCs in Hommlet (Elmo and 2 others) and let them level up normally because the traders and their assassins are high level (the ninja and the fat trader are level 10). Then I replace one of with Otis and deal with the traders in Nulb. After that, I recruit Mother Screng and Hruda. I'm tempted to recruit Mother Screng and Hruda first but as far as I know, NPCs have no memorized spells when they join.
     
  2. hammyh

    hammyh Established Member

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    Since I was curious about the function anyways...as I thought there was some recent talk of tweaks in Temple+...however I couldn't find any newish changes. So here are [afaik] the definitive Conditions for Screng:
    • (game.party_alignment == LAWFUL_GOOD) or (game.party_alignment == NEUTRAL_GOOD) or (game.party_alignment == CHAOTIC_GOOD)) and (game.story_state >= 5)
    • (group_average_level(pc) <= 5) and (not pc.follower_atmax())}{190}{game.quests[31].state = qs_accepted}
    • 2 further npc slots available with Otis already in the party.
    -party alignment is creation-time alignment, not character.
    -game.story_state>=5 -> find out there are temple factions. Usually by talking to faction leader(s). Or getting Earth temple leader's book.
    -31 state = Otis second time joining

    group_average_level(pc) function is:
    def group_average_level( pc ):
    count = 0
    level = 0
    for obj in pc.group_list():
    count = count + 1
    level = level + obj.stat_level_get( stat_level )
    if (count == 0):
    return 1

    avg = (level/count) + (count - 4)/2
    return avg

    ___________Sitra wrote this summary in the forums:
    A note on group average level:

    The group_average_level() command from utilities.py was changed (by Cerulean I think) to take group size into account. So the command is more like group_effective_average_level(). The reasoning is that obviously a 5th level party of 8 characters is much stronger than a 5th level party of 4.

    The formula is currently calculated as:

    n = number of party members (including animal companions, charmed creatures, etc.)
    level = sum of all of the group's character levels. (animal companions are all level 0, from chicken to brown bear)

    average_level = [level/n] + [(n-4)/2]
    Where [ ] denotes rounding down.

    So for a party of 4, you get exactly the average level, but every two PCs/NPCs beyond that add another 1.
    Animal companions can also skew it down, since they increase n without contributing to level.
    ...thus based on your question, the answer is yes. Read through the function details (above) for more insight. ie, party of 3+otis vs party of 5+otis will differ for necessary squatting maximums.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
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  3. hentaikamen

    hentaikamen Member

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    Thanks for providing the function to calculate the average party level. I tried calculating different scenarios and it seems I can only get Mother Screng if I'm at level 4 max (with 5 members + Otis). Please let me know if I screw up the math somewhere.

    Scenario 1: 5 members (level 5) + Otis (level 10)
    n = 6
    level = (5 * 5) + 10 = 35
    average level = [35/6] + [(6-4)/2] = [5.83] + 1 = 6

    Scenario 2: 5 members (level 4) + Otis (level 10)
    n = 6
    level = (5 * 4) + 10 = 30
    average level = [30/6] + [(6-4)/2] = 5 + 1 = 6

    Scenario 3: 5 members (level 5) + Otis (level 10) + 1 animal companion
    n = 7
    level = (5 * 5) + 10 = 35
    average level = [35/7] + [(7-4)/2] = 5 + [1.5] = 6

    Scenario 4: 5 members (level 4) + Otis (level 10) + 1 animal companion
    n = 7
    level = (5 * 4) + 10 = 30
    average level = [30/7] + [(7-4)/2] = [4.29] + [1.5] = 5

    Then I remember that I can leave my created party member in the Hommlet inn. Here are some scenario with some party member left in the inn.

    Scenario 5: 4 members (level 5) + Otis (level 10), 1 member left in Hommlet inn
    n = 5
    level = (4 * 5) + 10 = 30
    average level = [30/5] + [(5-4)/2] = 6 + [0.5] = 6

    Scenario 6: 4 members (level 4) + Otis (level 10), 1 member left in Hommlet inn
    n = 5
    level = (4 * 4) + 10 = 26
    average level = [26/5] + [(5-4)/2] = [5.2] + [0.5] = 5

    scenario 7: 1 member (level 2) + Otis (level 10), 4 members (might not squat level at all) left in Hommlet inn
    n = 2
    level = 2 + 10 = 12
    average level = [12/2] + [2-4/2] = 6 + [-1] = 5 ---> -1 because a party of 2 members are weaker than a party of 4 members (assuming they are all the same level)

    Not sure with the last one but it seems if I leave most of my party members in the inn except one who squat level at level 2 then go to Nulb and recruit Otis, I might still be eligible to recruit Mother Screng and Hruda. Then I can go back to Hommlet and fetch the other party members. A party of 2 level 5 are weaker than a party of 4 level 5, right?

    But just in case, I might level squat at level 4 and summon an animal companion (scenario 4) to recruit Mother Screng. I might try scenario 7 by leaving most of party members in the inn and create a new one (level 1) from the innkeeper's book then go alone to Nulb and recruit Otis, Mother Screng and Hruda. Then go back to Hommlet, ditch the level 1 guy and get back all the original 5 members.

    Last, how do I call that function in the console so I can check the average party level. The function expect 1 parameter, but I don't know what value to pass into it.
     
  4. hammyh

    hammyh Established Member

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    Npcs can be dropped off/sent home at any time and iirc they don't change (ie, auto-level) when re-engaged.

    Although I've done this screng party, it does require some meta-gaming:
    • after the second time Otis joins, you can never go back to Nulb or he leaves for good. It looks like screng/hurda also leave.
    • the nulb house ambush is iirc min. pty function lvl 6, and you would need to do this before leaving Nulb - if you want Otis there.
    • everthing Nulb should be done before. There is also one non-essential Nulb journey in extra content (Verbonc quest- "ratting out the hexorites", I think).
    • to reitierate, you can't go back to nulb, which isn't that big of a deal.
    So the minimal sequence is:
    1. find out where is temple of elemental evil + nulb
    2. pick up Otis, then talk to one of the leaders
    3. travel a bit to get assassin (with or without oitis)
    4. go back to town, get otis again + screng/hurda
    5. if needed level up so to get house ambush to trigger
    6. never go back to Nulb
    Alternatively, I also saw on the forum this post: https://co8.org/community/threads/all-npcs-party-feasible.13134/page-2#post-152598 - which I can say would work without issues, as well.

    It depends on how you want to work it.

    I don't know this. It's a python function. Anyone else know? @Sitra Achara ?
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
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  5. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    You could also bonk Otis on the head before heading back to nulb ;) just don’t forget to make it nonlethal!
     
  6. hentaikamen

    hentaikamen Member

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    I wasn't talking about the dropping NPCs, but dropping the created PCs in the Hommlet inn. If you talk to the innkeeper, he offers you to keep one or more created PCs in the second floor of the inn. After deciding which party members you want to leave, go upstairs and those created PCs are left there. You can talk to them and ask them to rejoin your party.

    In my last scenario, I'm planning to level up normally with 5 created PCs and doing all sub quests (including the traders assault) in Nulb. When I'm ready to get Mother Screng, I leave 4 created PCs in the second floor then make a new character (let's call him the dummy) from the innkeeper's book. Now I have 2 PCs, a high level one and the dummy. Then I leave the high level one so my party only has the dummy. The dummy'll travel alone to Nulb to fetch Otis, Mother Screng and Hruda. Return back to Hommlet and get all the original 5 members and leave the dummy.

    I'm not sure if it will work or not but technically the cummulative levels will be 1 (the dummy) + 10 (Otis) = 11, while the number of characters is only 2. Using the formula you provided will be = [11/2] + [(2-4)/2] = [5.5] + [(-1)] = 5 - 1 = 4.

    In my previous post (scenario 7), it's a bit different because I don't use a dummy character. 5 created PCs, 4 of them level up normally but one of them level squat at level 2 while doing all sub quests in Nulb. Then leave the 4 high level members in Hommlet inn and the level 2 travels alone to Nulb to get Otis, Mother Screng and Hruda.

    The innkeeper only offers to his service to keep your created PCs after you solve Furnok's cheating quest. I also noticed there's a bug in this feature. Let's say I have 5 created PCs, then I leave 1 of them (let's call him A) at inn and put a new created member (let's call him B) from the innkeeper's book. Now I have 5 created PCs again. If I go upstairs and try to ask A to rejoin, A agrees but A is not added into my party (because the party is limited with 5 PCs + 3 NPCs). If I leave B so I have 4 PCs again, I can't ask A to rejoin because it seems the game assumes A has already rejoined my party.

    Is it possible to rescue Paida and Prince Thrommel before step 4?

    I'll check the dialog mod in that thread, it seems better than trying to do all these scenarios I've prepared.

    I've read the NPCs trick in another thread about Otis forgetting that he's joined you the second time if you bonked him non-lethally.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
  7. hammyh

    hammyh Established Member

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    Just imho, but the Screng is not that great, depending... If you get her really early, then she's powerful to game play.

    If you have a party that can successfully pull off the Nulb house ambush (lvl6+), then....you might not find her that interesting. You are stuck with her feats and she might only be a couple of levels higher than the party.

    One of the fun Temple+ features is trying out the new prcs, as well.

    Hruda ~ same as Wonnilon.
     
  8. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    About testing the function:

    from utilities import *
    group_average_level(game.leader)
     
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  9. hentaikamen

    hentaikamen Member

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    The reason why I choose to recruit Mother Screng is because of role playing reason. I'm currently playing an NG party and the opening vignette is the murder of Canoness Y'Dey. I'm aware of her true identity.

    I plan to recruit 3 NPCs in Hommlet before I replace them with Otis, Mother Screng and Hruda. I choose one of new cleric NPC as one of the trio.

    Thanks, it works.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
  10. hammyh

    hammyh Established Member

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    Ah, well... if it is pure RP, then I would suggest the tweak that Isewein submitted in that link above.

    It seems rather silly to juggle the party at the inn and it really makes no RP logic [to me]. Then you can just play normally and she'll join as part of a normal story progression, no matter what level your party is at the time.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
  11. hentaikamen

    hentaikamen Member

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    My scenarios are too much a hassle and it might not even work. I've already replaced those dlg files from the thread you posted earlier. I'm sure these updated dlg files will save my time and frustation (from level squatting vs high level enemies). Thanks.
     
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