All-NPCs party feasible?

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Isewein, Dec 19, 2020.

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  1. Isewein

    Isewein Member

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    @Oleg Ben Loleg : I have that option unchecked in the front end, yet I still see exact HP displayed in the game. Seems like a glitch then?

    PS: Is there any drawback to simply resummoning a Druid's Animal Companion instead of wasting a Raise Dead scroll on it?
     
  2. florian1

    florian1 Established Member

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    I'm pretty sure the Druid can summon a new animal companion without delay.
     
  3. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    Yep, absolutely they can. Dismiss, re-summon this is why I feel no guilt killing my players animal companions mercilessly when I GM.
     
  4. Isewein

    Isewein Member

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    Huh, I never knew. I thought it worked like a Familiar, but checking the SRD right now you are right. That saves me a lot of trouble (although I do feel ever so slightly guilty...).
     
  5. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    I think familiars are both far more fragile, and far harder to regain after a death because they could potentially be far more useful in tabletop games. They can scout at exceptionally long ranges with little risk to themselves and no risk to the owner and have a limited ability to communicate over these vast distances which improves as they level up.

    In ToEE, they are less useful however since the scouting aspect doesn't come into play, they also lack the ability to have personal and touch spells cast through them. Normal familiars also have other limitations however, tiny and smaller creatures have 0 foot reach, meaning they can attack, but must enter an enemies space to do so - provoking an attack of opportunity before even getting to attack, this is in addition to AoO's provoked from moving through a threatened space, but for delivering touch ranged buff spells and healing to allies from distance could be incredibly useful (if only it were possible it ToEE).
     
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  6. Endarire

    Endarire Ronald Rynnwrathi

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    ToEE animal companions are disposable. Familiars are a bit less disposable.
     
  7. Dreamteam

    Dreamteam Member

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    Sorta. It's part exploit and part class synergy.

    If you have both a Wizard and a Sorceror in your party already, then there is no added benefit in doing this. But if you have to chose between the two (to diversify the party), choose Sorceror. Then multi your (N)PC as Sorcerer with only 1 level of Wizard, so they get a familar + spellbook + scribe scroll. Thus you gain the breadth of knowledge of the wizard's spellbook (through scribing your own scrolls) while maintaining all the tactical benefits of being a free-caster (ie. no need to memorize what spells you intend to cast that day).

    The exploit is that the benefits of Scholar Kits stack in ToEE, and there are 4 kits available in/near Hommlet so it is easy to do. Keep your Spellcraft skill maxed as you level. Having high Spellcraft and stacked scholar kits allows you to add spells to you spellbook that are normally too high for a Wiz 1 to know, and once they are in your spellbook you can scribe them again as a scroll whenever you need it. Thus you gain the wizard's breadth of knowledge through your supply of scrolls.

    All combat spells such as MM or FB that scale w/ level you learn as you level sorcerer, whereas spells that just toggle an effect outside of combat such as Invisibility or Detect Magic you read from your endless self-made supply of wizard scrolls.

    Try it out on Pischella, as her stats are excellent for this, rather than dragging around both a Sorc and a Wiz. A Bard becomes exceedingly versatile if they do this as well (even more so, due to their high Use Magic Item skill).
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2021
  8. hammyh

    hammyh Member

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    I noticed this thread was relatively recent, so I'd thought I'd mention my evaluations of the NPCs for an all-NPC party (except your PC). All NPC is very doable and I actually prefer it.

    Firstly, as mentioned, any KO and you game is done - so you probably want the PC to be less front-line to avoid this and your PC will need some skills to do the face skills and wilderness survival. Npcs don't count for social, appraise, and survival - but this can be cross-classed on the PC and you don't really need that high of skills.

    My favorite Npcs for a good party:
    1. Meleny. Weak at the start, except for her useful animal companion. However, once she reaches Shapeshift Legendary Rat, she becomes the best Tank. Great AC. After legendary rat level, add 2 levels of monk for evasion + more AC and give her some umd skill (shield scroll, etc). With a few attribute spells, mage armor, shield spell... AC could get around 45-ish and she will rarely fail an evasion check - which means you can throw fireball, cone of cold and more around her. And even better, the AI preferentially targets her for some reason -her weak unshifted stats, maybe? Add Natural Spell, weapon finesse, etc. Shapeshift is good for everything but the Gods arena, where you will need weapons. Downside is that a male PC with 16 charisma is needed to acquire Meleny (temple+ might have an option to disable this). Even evil parties can enjoy her company until they trade her into slavery in Nulb, if you were so inclined.
    2. Fruella. An annoying sound set for some. Immediately multi-classed to Bard, she makes an extremely versatile killing machine. Easily as good as Elmo and more survivable. I also quite enjoy using her Trip feat action. She will always remain loyal, unlike Meleny, Elmo, and Roland - which is more of an issue for an evil party. She will never leave the party. I have also made her into an Eldritch Knight Sorc.
    3. Elmo. Sound set is ok. A good beginning tank and he immediately multi-classes well to Cleric. His weapon feats soon become obsolete if you are not crafting, but ultimately it is not that big of a deal.
    4. Roland. A decent cleric and ok sound set (I find him a bit whiny). At lvl 3 I give him the scribe scroll feat to make a ton of scrolls of cure light wounds. This makes early adventures so much more continuous and enjoyable. You could give Meleny scribe, but she's got better things to do with feats; it's better to employ Roland temporarily for a few levels or take it at first level as a PC cleric.
    5. Spugnoir. A decent wizard - I personally think he is better than Priscella. I am not a fan of her multiclass and I'm aware of the scribe + kits exploit. For basic spell casting, he will be 1-2 spell levels above Priscella and I like his sound set better. He can also make scrolls - I typically use a lot of ray of enfeeblement, mage armor, mirror image, etc. Imho having many scrolls can be much the same as spontaneous casting and wizards get more feats. Wizards can use quicken spell.
    6. Zaxis. A decent bard and I enjoy his sound set. You may not run into him for a while and may not need another bard.
    7. Furnok. He's an ok addition if you have a rounded party, but you don't really need a dedicated rogue. I have turned him into a Arcane trickster and another time as a Duelist. He's weak early game and can get better later on. The rogue sisters in Nulb can also perform similarly. You can also simply engage his services for the short time to open the Smith's chest
    8. Otis. In Nulb. He will temporarily travel with you if you have a slot open. He's very tough but temporary and maybe makes things a bit too easy - so I put him last.
    I've played with evil Npcs, as well. They work too. You can dominate most anything to add to the party, but there will be no sound set, then.
     
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  9. ansver

    ansver Member

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    Scribing higher level scrolls doesn't seem to work anymore in my game. My guess is it was fixed in Temple+.
     
  10. Endarire

    Endarire Ronald Rynnwrathi

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    @Dreamteam @ansver
    Ansver is correct. Also, it's 'Ronald' and not 'Roland.' (Maybe you were thinking of that noble from Heroes of Might and Magic.)

    I also considered this one PC and all NPC team. The likely best main character is a Rogue or Rogue/Wizard/Arcane Trickster for the mechanical benefits. Burne, Y'dey, and Otis are the most powerful recruitable NPCs - and I've gotten them in the early game.
     
  11. hammyh

    hammyh Member

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    Yes, it's possible to get these NPCs + Thrommel and cruise through the Temple in one go. Y'dey takes a bit of meta-gaming to make the conditions, as does keeping Burne from leaving in the Temple. However, I think they make the game too trivial.

    Imho, the best class for a single PC is the Temple+ extra class of Beguiler. This class is good for dominating monsters and has all needed social skills. I did an evil party once that eventually consisted of a Kobold Sergeant, Ogre Leader, Greater Bugbear Rogue/Fighter, Oohlgrist, and Ashrem. It was overkill for the Temple but fun enough in the Gods arena.

    Most enjoyable is seeing the lower level Npcs grow with you, though.
     
  12. Daryk

    Daryk Veteran Member

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    Don't forget Furnok brings a Ring of Invisibility early...
     
  13. Endarire

    Endarire Ronald Rynnwrathi

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    @Daryk
    I don't need Furnok: I just want his ring.
     
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