Reduced XP awards testing thread

All right, you guys...let's all settle down now! No one's even written this yet, so obviously, we can't comment about ANY changes until it's modded & tested; Sheesh! :roll:

Sauce for the goose...oke:

Now...what's say them spiders show up the next time the party takes a rest some place...a sort of visitation from Lareth's Patron, eh? A fitting use for them since it looks like they'll soon be wanting employment elsewhere.

 

Update: Gained Level 5
My mage can craft weapons and armor,
and the thing I noticed up to this point was that the only
magical weapons I obtained were in fact Longswords (holy
and +2 from Imeryds Run) and Longbow +1 (not to mention
Lareth's Staff/Club). There should be different weapon drops
available (I'm not saying at the same time to add some more
to the existing but to change the longsword +2 into something
different, and make it +1 plus nerf Lareth's staff to +1).

Firstly I retrieved Terjon's artifact, the skeletons were easier
than usual (though I was lower level). The giant was fascinated
and got slaughtered pretty fast (I think I had to reload once, or
so). Apart from the bug I noticed about fascinate, there is another
one, namely a bard can fascinate an attacked monster again
(but he has to make an action first to stop singing).

Anyway, I went to Nulb and solved the FedEx quests without
brawling with Tolub (since he's got two attacks per round) the
encounter at Imeryds Run was easier than usual (has it also
been scaled?) Sea Hag was not a big problem, and my spellcasters
were almost unscathed. I wasn't visited by Rannos and Gremag, probably
because Skole was killed by the pirates for plotting against Lodriss (however
I told him to say whatever he wants to say to the guys asking about my party).
I went to the temple and entered level one through the spiral stairs. The undead
where easy to beat with a priest of Pelor with the domain of sun.

But before I went to the Temple I visited Hickory and killed the first group of orcs.
Coming back there for more...

 

In the novel Temple of Elemental Evil by Thomas M. Reid, Lareth turns into some kind of drider/ghost thingie when he gets killed and hunts the party through the temple.

 

*resists urge to beat an apparently dead horse.*

 

You're asking me? I dunno...but it sure would be kewl. Someone did manage to put bad dudes in the Nulb house, so this should be do-able.

Yeah...the party's gotta know it was a pleasant little surprise from Lolth. Perhaps the biggest one wears a collar with a tag on it (amulet) inscribed with her name that you need Read Magic to decipher...

 

It would be possible to do, though perhaps having them show up in areas that are safe to sleep might be a stretch. It would be easy enough to have the ghost of Lareth show up (so to speak) not drawn and announce "Llolth's vengeance for my death is upon you."

 

Update:
Gained level 6th at Hickory Branch
Many minor fights were relatively easy
except for the dire bear (fascinate really
needs to be taken care of, at least to a point
where the player can use it once on one monster
during combat, guess why I won? ). The Orc
Commander (the one with Orc Double Axe) was
a great pain in the neck, firstly he killed off two of
my warriors with one blow! (Critical Hit+Cleave+
Critical Hit) But that's not the thing I was going to
discuss. After reloading, I finally managed to kill
him and gained 1300XP per character for one
single monster! Why single? Because he attacked me
just when the fog of war uncovered him, and in effect
his minions were standing up north doing nothing. I think
there would be an easy solution to this problem, simply
moving the commander closer his minions. The Orc Captain
was easy (the group in the middle of the map) and left a
ridiculously huge treasure (Mithrall Plate, Warhammer+1,
some Masterwork weapons and armor and leather armour+1).
After getting rid of everything on the surface I went down to kill
the minotaur. This time I got lucky about that fight, first Grease
worked and he tripped, then he couldn't get out of Webcobs which
made him laugh hideously (with a little help from Tasha). He
didn't give me much of a XP boost, just 150XP. Now I'm off to the
Temple.

They've just showed up.

 

Hmm I didn't mean to rant about HB, I was
just saying what happened and reporting.
By the time Krunch released his HB update my
comments will (may?) have become outdated. I also
enjoyed Hickory Branch for the first time.



PS.
oop: <-- they really have emoticons for eveything
these days

 

I think it would be nice if someone else could
report his experience of the game with reduced
XP awards. There's still too little feedback I think..

 

Now running a second game. This time reduced XP to 40%.

Party composition: 3 sorcerers, 4 wizards :cool2:
A couple of them were given high strength, and are dwarves, so they are sort of fighter mages. I'm not going to multiclass them to keep the theme party schtick going
Except for one character I recycled from the previous game, they are all rolled. A couple are fairly uber, but nothing too wild (i.e. no one has more than two stats at over 17).

Progress log:

• First level up was after doing most of the Hommlet quests, and killing the frogs, outer brigands, a random encounter with a hobgoblin and a goblin, Deklo spiders, giant snake, and stirges.
• Killed the inner brigands very easily. In fact, I didn't take a single hit. That's what happens when you get to cast sleep about 7 times a round
  In fact, so far most fights have been very easy because the enemies succumb to tiredness sooner or later. Only exception has been the giant snake, which has too high a HD - that one was brought down by a barrage of magic missiles.

Second session:

• Oh my. Zombies and Lubash did NOT go well. Obviously, the sleep tactic didn't work on them, and I didn't have turn undead ability. I ended up talking my way past Lubash and ignoring the zombies.
• Next up were the gnolls. Once again, they were felled easily by sleep spells.
• Lareth's guards... weren't too tough, but I had to do them in two takes cause the archer in the corridor got a lucky shot on one of my sorcerers, disabling him.
• Lareth himself was unusually hard, especially with the spiders. I was in a pretty bad shape afterwards, with 3 party members knocked out and no heal spells at all. I lucked out and camped safely three times in a row, though, enabling me to handle the spider surprise attack (again with sleep).
• By the way, has anyone noticed the writing on the pentagram near the cave exit? It's in Hebrew, and it means 'whale'
• Went outside to the ambush. Things didn't go too well, so I fled combat back inside the Moathouse, and exited the other way. Rested, returned, and whooped them - first cast grease on a large concentration of fighters, then obscuring mist so they'd often miss, and then put them all to sleep eventually.
• Went to Nulb to test Gaear's new mod

To summarize, fights have been very polarized so far: If sleep works (i.e. the enemies are not immune or have high Hit Dice), then it's a breeze, otherwise, a nightmare! (well, a lot tougher than with buffed meatshields, at any rate)

Note that I haven't even hit level 3 yet! But, I probably will soon, once I kill the bugbears, zombies and crayfish (assuming I can handle them). Lubash might have to wait.

Third session:

• Killed the Moathouse bugbears quite easily (again using sleep), and had a random encounter on the way back, making me level 3.
• Took an Exotic Weapon proficiency with a spiked chain for one of my "battlemages" (so now I have a legit 10 feet reach). I could probably make a major exploit if I combine this with web, enlarge person and Lareth's magic ring - the enemy would be paralyzed while I'd be hacking away with impunity from 15 feet, even when fighting giants/trolls. Well, I guess I could do the same with arrows, but I guess I never had the patience to do that...
• Managed to defeat the zombies and oozes, but had to use Web to hold back the zombies. It helps that Magic Missiles are now doubly effective.
• Lubash was also felled next, more easily than I expected. Glitterdust was a major help, and since the magic missiles are more potent than the last time I tried to take him on, I managed to bring him down fast enough before he could seriously wail on my guys. I also used a couple of false life spells on one of my battlemages just in case.
• All in all, that extra level really made the difference. I don't see how I'd be able to defeat the zombies and the ogre earlier (without hiring Elmo or Zert). Though now that I think about it, I guess I could have just bought a scroll of web/glitterdust from Burne...
• Finished up the rest (crayfish and ghouls).
  Has anyone ever noticed that the crayfish can't fit in the corridor leading down to it? How did they get it in there in the first place?
• Did a few more quests in Nulb. The XP reward is slightly more substantial when you're low level.
• Now hacking away at Hickory. First two fights were easy enough - once again, put everyone to sleep, except for the dire wolves who had too high a HD, but they only noticed me when the rest were already sound asleep, so I could concentrate magic missiles on them.

At this point, I have about 4500 XP. It's going to take a few more fights to reach level 4, it seems. In my previous runthrough, I was already level 4 at this point IIRC.

Fourth session:

• Did a few more fights with ordinary orcs. As usual, they're not much of a challenge.
• A party member died in a fight with the wolves. I made a bunch of stupid mistakes there. But, I decided not to reload, and resurrected her instead - taking a massive XP hit. At least the resurrection didn't cost much.
• Defeated brown bears. They were dead before they could land a hit, due to grease.
• Ogre Shaman fight... would have gone much better, except the bloody RNG decided it was time for a freaking TPW. ARRGH!!!:rant:
  Actually, I managed to kill all the enemies that attacked me (some were out of view), but since the damned bugbears I tried to put to sleep kept rolling 15+ on almost every single freakin' will save, my spells were depleted, and on the way back to Hommlet I encountered a bunch of hobgoblins and a bugbear who pretty much wiped me out. (I reloaded when I was down to the two weakest).
• So, like I said, I reloaded. This time I bought some extra firepower from Burne - a scroll of Fireball, lightning bolt and ice storm. The RNG decided to balance itself and didn't give me too much trouble with the bugbears this time, and the ogre shaman fight went well - not a scratch actually.
• Level up! (except for the resurrected party member). I'm about halfway through HB, but with most of the tough fights ahead of me.

I gotta say, the fights are starting to get a lot more challenging now. But a lot of this is due to a lack of proper meat shields (my best AC so far has been 15, with mage armor...). It's very tempting to pick up Elmo or Otis. But, I think I'll persevere. One of my sorcerers finally got ahold of web, so I can cast those multiple times. And next level I will be able to start casting stinking cloud and fireball, so it's game over for everyone but the ones with really high saves. And once my sorcerers get fireball too... it's going to be a bloodbath!

Fifth session:

• Well, did everything there is to do in HB except the minotaur (because he'll probably kick my ass). I'll wait till I'm level 5 for that one.
• Orc Commander fight... well, I prepared with a couple of fireballs scrolls. Cast both at the beginning, and then web, which prevented my own party from being fireballed (the shaman miscast the fireball ). Two webs and grease held the commander at bay long enough for me to pummel him to death with magic missiles (though actually I had originally planned on just killing the spell casters and fleeing combat once he got near). This one netted 1120XP and much phat lewt. (you might notice I haven't mentioned XP gained per encounter yet - that's because I tend to kill the critters with Coup De Grace one at a time after putting them to sleep :mrhappy: ).
  But prior to that, I had two failed attempts. In one, I got fireballed, and the Orc Commander hit my battlemage twice for 48HP, killing him instantly. Too late to run away. Another one, also got fireballed, and my lowest HP wizard got killed, and 3 others knocked out. Reload.
• I am now about 800 XP short of level 5 (except for the one who previously died, who just gained level 4 after this fight)

So, even if I managed to kill the minotaur, I'd still be level 4 at this point. Next stop is Emridy meadows, but even after that I doubt I'll be level 5. It seems I'll have to do a few fights in the Temple to level up before tackling Verbobonc!

Sixth session:

• Did Emridy meadows. Quite easily actually. Web is a real winner, even when the enemy critters break free.
• After a couple random encounters, completing a couple of quests I overlooked in Nulb, and reporting to Smyth about the head-ex quest, I'm level 5 now.
• So, with stinking cloud and fireball available to me, I dared to go to Imeryd's Run. Everything, including the gar, attacked at once, but I managed to kill them all without any losses. Luckily, the Stinking Cloud I cast paralyzed the Behemoth Kingfrog after only 3 rounds (the thing has about +15 on all saves...). The seahag was held at bay with grease and web, likewise for the gar. The Kingfrog managed to grapple one of my guys before getting sickened, but fortunately for me that particular one was a dwarf with 18 Con AND a scroll of cure serious wounds, so he survived the acid long enough for me to pummel the Kingfrog with 12 magic missiles per round and a hastened battlemage (the other one was busy with the seahag). The rest were cleaned up with a couple of fireballs and yet more magic missiles. All in all, that was a pretty fun and exciting fight. It's a shame I can't use most of the loot

Looks like I was wrong about having to do Temple fights. Oh well. They'll probably be very easy now that I have Fireball & Stinking Cloud (except for the one with the ogre chief, maybe).

 

One of my favorite parties consisted of five Wizards.

 

Continued from two posts above (reached the smiley per post limit )

Seventh and the rest:

• Indeed, most of Temple level 1 was a piece of cake. Did everything except the ogre chief, Romag and the rest of the NW corner. A couple of observations:
  • The Earth Temple fighters fail to use their Javelins of Lightning.
  • Like I said before, the ordinary troops (Earth Temple Guards) with HPs are fireball fodder. I think we should replace many of them with Temple Fighters, who are a bit tougher.
• I think I levelled after/during clearing the level. Not sure, there's a gap in my records.
• After doing that, I went back to the Moathouse to deal with the respawn.
• Boars were easy enough.
• Brigand skeletons as well (+111XP, +128XP for my ressed character)
• Werewolves - fireballed and bottlenecked to death (+754XP/960XP for ressed - I'll abbreviated this to XP1/XP2 from now on)
• Oozes - webbed and magic missiled (137/182)
• Groaning Spirit - killed a bodak and fled (was running out of spells) (205/270 for the single bodak I killed, maybe a couple of shadows too)
• Basilisk, ochre jelly, brown and black bear, skeleton gnolls +340/488
• Witch and her companions - fairly easy, +845/1108, Bracers +4, Magic Amulet of Armor +2, Dagger +2, +3 Bolts (seems a bit over the top - might want to reduce the loot a little)
• Crafted Spiked chain +2 :twisted:
• Rest of Groaning Spirit fight - 445/557
• So, in total, got 2837XP for most of the party, and 3205 for my resurrected character.
• My main "magical tank" now has 24 AC with the Amulet of Natural Armor + Mage Armor + Shield (spell), and can get more than 60 additional HP with false life and bear's endurance. A pretty decent tank if you ask me
• After killing Skole and his guards, a couple of random encounters, and the Fiendish Minotaur (who once again failed his Stinking Cloud fortitude save quite early in the battle) I get another 734/881 XP, and sell the Silver Sword of Chaos for over 65kGP.
• Went back to Temple level 1, cleared the Ogre Chief, Romag, altar guards. Romag and the altar guards fell in one round... but I guess that's what happens when you get to cast 5-6 fireballs in one round +1390/1570 XP, and some decent loot from the altar room that just begs to be guarded better
• Encountered a bug where a couple of zombies attacked each other... could this be related to Ted's fiddling with the zombies?
• So, now that I'm just about done with Level 1, with my sorcerers packing some heat P) I decided to go to Verbobonc.
• I didn't keep a very detailed record, but I finished off all the spiders and drow up to the Matriarch (included) in about an hour or so. It's a bloodbath, I tell ya :twisted:. Total XP gains: 2738/3562.

So, at this point, I have over 172k GP, and my party members have between 22.1k and 24.7k XP (mid-level 7). Most fights are a piece of cake - ordinary critters can't survive the raging firestorms I unleash upon them, and others with particularly high Spell Resistance get the stinking cloud treatment (which bypasses SR and sooner or later overcomes whatever Fortitude save bonus they have).

In conclusion, it looks like the further reduction wasn't hugely different, especially toward the end. The XP reduction is balanced out in the long run by the fact that lower level parties get bigger XP rewards for the same encounters.

However, if HB is moved to the end of the game, 40%-50% is about right I think, taking into consideration the Orc Cave prespawn and other content added to the beginning of the game. You'll probably reach the Temple at about level 3 and gain a level up to 4 with the easier fights (ghouls/ghasts, stirges, bugbears, etc.), do the Imeryds run/Emridy meadows and get some better gear (roughly the same as with the original game).