Zoltec's 7.9 CTD Investigation Thread

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Zoltec, Aug 21, 2013.

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  1. Zoltec

    Zoltec Pгōdigium

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    Re: ToEE Front-End X 4.0 Discussion Thread

    Hi, Sirchet. If you still have the Co8 v7.8 modpack installation and after you retrieve the original .bik file from the ToEE w/o Co8, can you install Co8 v7.8 on it? Kindly, retrieve its introcinematic.bik, then, test it with the v7.9 if the original one fails.

    Try it atleast 3 times to be sure, for v7.8 introcinematic.bik and the original toee introcinematic.bik
     
    Zoltec, Aug 23, 2013
    #46
  2. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Okay, I've separated all of the recent testing and theorization done here from the front end 4 thread, as it's going pretty far afield from that.

    Also, with all due respect to Zoltec (and appreciation for his continued efforts), I have to point out that none of the recommendations and instructions given here are actually sanctioned by Co8. That means if you want to assist with testing under his guidelines, by all means do so, but know that Co8 is not formally endorsing them as viable solutions. Agetian (and to a lesser extent me) are continuing to investigate, and I personally feel more comfortable with Ag's methodology. We may ask some of you to assist with a rigorous testing procedure in the future.

    Meanwhile, if Zoltec cracks this nut, great. We'll throw a party and name him member of the week. :thumbsup:
     
    Gaear, Aug 23, 2013
    #47
  3. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    Just of the week? Heh heh

    I just wanted to let you know Zoltec that I am once again out of town for the appointments I mentioned before, but when I return, (hopefully this weekend) I will begin swapping files around and give you a report.
     
    sirchet, Aug 23, 2013
    #48
  4. CrimsonVirus

    CrimsonVirus Member

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    I've just read this thread. That escalated quickly! :p

    Anyway, Zoltec I can try doing what you asked of Sirchet now that I'm able.

    Will update with results in a few minutes...

    UPDATE: I've replaced the whole movie folder from the vanilla TOEE to the 7.9 Co8 to
    no avail. Still crashes in the same manner. I don't suppose the 7.8 movies are any different. Truthfully, there was no difference between the two sets of movies in terms of space, just the date, which is natural I suppose.

    I had an epiphany though, so please bear with me:

    When I start the game with intro enabled for the first time, after a system reboot, the loading screen with 'initializing sector data' thing, takes longer to complete than any other time I boot the game, and after that the intro rolls almost certainly.

    Now, most of you must have realized by now that if you hit the Esc button repeatedly at the Atari, Troika and Wizards logo .bik(s) it will most probably crash before it even starts showing the loading screen.

    My new monitor tends to flash a DVI icon in the upper right corner when a resolution other than the native is displayed. When I boot up the game (in a successful intro-displaying time), this icon flashes first at the Atari logo .bik, then at the loading screen, once again at the introcinematic.bik and finally once at the Main Menu. So that means the movies and the gaming interface (meaning loading screen and main menu) don't share the same resolution/aspect ratio. (I use 1280x720 from TFE-X and my native is 1920x1080)

    Where am I getting at? Maybe there is a certain time needed between those 'resolution transitions' that, when it is not enough, it results in a crash. So if somehow we could 'make' that loading screen last longer, it would give time for the introcinematic.bik to roll unhindered. Hope you get what I mean. :p
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2013
    CrimsonVirus, Aug 24, 2013
    #49
  5. Zoltec

    Zoltec Pгōdigium

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    @Gaear Thanks a lot! :)

    @Sirchet Thank you, no problem with that.

    @CrimsonVirus Can you try this instead? I made this. By the way thanks for testing. :)

    I hope it's not that lame for ya!

    I see your point there, might be that "don't share the same resolution/aspect ratio"

    If that will work I can create a video for it.

    Anyway, I can create a similar video like that. But a short one only. A thrommel scene where he tries to slay zuggtmoy with an uber sword :/.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 24, 2013
    Zoltec, Aug 24, 2013
    #50
  6. CrimsonVirus

    CrimsonVirus Member

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    Hmm don't go into much trouble, it crashed again.

    I can say with certainty that the movies themselves are not the culprit.

    Sigh.... what's next to test now...

    IDEA: Can you edit the introcinematic.bik in 1920x1080 resolution? I don't care about quality, I just want to test the resolution aspect of it. (16:9 aspect ratio)

    P.S: Going to sleep now so I will probably see to it in 10-11 hours! :D
     
    CrimsonVirus, Aug 24, 2013
    #51
  7. Zoltec

    Zoltec Pгōdigium

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    Oh yeah. That's expected, well then. I'm brewing one now. Thanks. You need to rest now. :yes:

    Oh, try duplicating AtariLogo.bik then rename its copy to introcinematic.bik. Try that also.

    I have one more weird proposal, highlight all your files in Temple of Elemental Evil folder, not the "folders" and right click, select permissions tab and set all option to anyone. Do that also for \Temple of Elemental Evil\data\movies "contents" which are the movies, do not do this for "folders" since they are non-executables.

    I've got another one, try to Disable visual themes and Disable desktop composition for "toee.exe"

    Though, our last resort is to remove the introcinematic.bik, since, that particular movie triggers the crash in Windows 7, seems the game is not really built for the newer OSes I say. ;) But I didn't raise the flag yet, still hoping to find a suitable fix for it.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 24, 2013
    Zoltec, Aug 24, 2013
    #52
  8. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Just chiming in a bit here to help the bestigation ...

    Not sure what you mean by different, but the custom Co8 movies are of course different data sizes and potentially resolutions, and so on, but not different in a meaningful way in that the bink codec can play any bink file. The Co8 movies were made using the Rad Video Tools (Bink toolset) to convert them to .bik. Other than that, Co8 doesn't actually replace any vanilla movies; they're all pulled from your CD/download/whatever. The front end only moves them around.

    That's normal - the data is cached after the first load.

    Also normal. The only time there would be no mode switching, theoretically, is if you were playing at 800x600 and an 800x600 movie played and vice versa.

    Good guess but doubtful - computers do multiple complex calculations on the fly so they don't need a lot of time to do anything. To use scripting in ToEE as an example, the game is able to parse all kinds of lines of code in an instant and execute it without the player perceiving any delay. If there were a problem, I think it would actually be with your monitor. Mine takes a looong time to switch modes for example ... I miss like half of a movie while it's 'thinking' about switching in a blank screen.

    Bottom line is that at this point all indicators are pointing to mode switching, specifically at the point where the game switches from the splash screen to the intro cinematic. We know that something happens at this point that is hardcoded, because pointing to a different movie has no effect on the call for the intro at this stage. There's nothing wrong per se with the videos themselves, so playing around with different videos/resolutions is probably pointless. It might even be worse than pointless, because most likely different systems will manifest different results, so making a determination based solely on what one system is saying will probably be misleading.
     
    Gaear, Aug 24, 2013
    #53
  9. Zoltec

    Zoltec Pгōdigium

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    There are many points to be added -too-, in that case. For instance, for that particular OS, CrimsonVirus and Sirchet crashes upon their loading of introcinematic.bik isn't it a little coincidential that they can only start ToEE once, upon boot-up? Yes you're right, it might be the data-cache stored by ToEE, and the prefetch file of ToEE might be the case. Since, their OS might be deleting that, in every successive boot-up.

    @CrimsonVirus Look for toee.exe.randomnumbers.pf there and delete it. \WINDOWS\Prefetch

    Be not careful. :) And try to start the game.

    No it's not probably that misleading, because, we have a basis here and among them is A and B having the same C and D.

    Good point on the permissions. <below> But isn't creepy that ToEE can bypass the security even though it has no admin rights?
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2013
    Zoltec, Aug 24, 2013
    #54
  10. CrimsonVirus

    CrimsonVirus Member

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    Morning,

    Well, at the first light of day (and after reading your reply Gaear) I realized how stupid was my suggestion, that the monitor response has anything to do with what the rest of the system does.
    I need to sleep more...

    But there is some sort of magic going on about that first boot that defies all crashes and despair that I (we) can't point our finger at!

    @Zoltec: the 1920x1080 didn't work, so now I must ask you to make one 1280x720, which is the same resolution as the rest of the game (my game that is) and with this, we can close the resolution chapter I think.

    @Gaear: thanks for the reply and the suggestions but I guess a little experimentation doesn't hurt. Plus, it is only because I like your work (that points to everyone involved of course) that I'm motivated to help out however I can.

    EDIT: The visual themes and desktop composition were one of the first things to try (they've helped me in other matters) but no dice in TOEE. Also, I don't think permissions count either, since I play the intro successfully at least once. It's not like it denies me permission after the first try.:p

    EDIT2: Nothing new with the prefetch thing. I want to point out once again, for the record, that when in windowed mode (whichever resolution) I DON'T have ANY crashes.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2013
    CrimsonVirus, Aug 24, 2013
    #55
  11. Zoltec

    Zoltec Pгōdigium

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    You might try to do what I suggests to you. <above post> :)

    I see. Well it's pretty understandable that I lack resources here and have to perform more mind boggling on that particular OS, well, I don't have any leads yet. Standby. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2013
    Zoltec, Aug 24, 2013
    #56
  12. CrimsonVirus

    CrimsonVirus Member

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    Make that 1280x720 resolution .bik please, if it's not much trouble.
     
    CrimsonVirus, Aug 24, 2013
    #57
  13. Zoltec

    Zoltec Pгōdigium

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    Can you run your vanilla Temple of Elemental Evil installation? Try and see if you can get past to it. Do it atleast _3x_ ;)

    Yeah. Ill brew one.
     
    Zoltec, Aug 24, 2013
    #58
  14. CrimsonVirus

    CrimsonVirus Member

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    In the vanilla, I can't get past the desktop! :X

    It's that directX bug...

    Unless I can use that magical temple.dll as a standalone I don't know...
     
    CrimsonVirus, Aug 24, 2013
    #59
  15. Zoltec

    Zoltec Pгōdigium

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    You must atleast patch it up to 2.0 or use moebius.dll(if you already did, nevermind). :thumbsup:

    Anyway, here's the brew.
     

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    Zoltec, Aug 24, 2013
    #60
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