Which weapon type is good for rogue?

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Codeguru, Apr 8, 2006.

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  1. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

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    Halflings and Gnomes are small. Which means they need to use smaller weapons. As you said, a short sword isn't light for a halfling. It's too big. To a halfing, a short sword is the size of a long sword, and thus is treated like one for weapon finesse. For a halfing rogue, daggers are the way to go.

    Halfling rogues do get a bunch of advantages, but high melee damage (outside of sneak attacks) is not one of them.

    I personally stick with human rogues for the extra feat, extra skill points and the ability to use short swords and rapiers.

    My standard build for a rogue is:

    Dex: Highest Score
    Int: Second Highest
    Cha: Third Highest (if no Bard in party. If Bard, then Lowest)
    Con: Fourth
    Str: Fifth
    Wis: Lowest (unless Bard, then 2nd lowest.)

    1st level Feat: Two-Weapon Fighting
    Human Feat: Improved Initiative
    3rd level Feat: Weapon Finesse
    6th Level: Two Weapon Defense
    9th Level: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
    10th Level: Crippling Strike

    Use short swords and rapiers for weaponry.
     
  2. Codeguru

    Codeguru Member

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    But what is the advantage of two weapon fighting? If you still get negative swing check for dual wield when you have the feat it's not doing what it says it should. Heh I think I'll try this game again with a human rogue sometime and mess around with other classes but I think I'm gonna go on to this Bauldur's Gate 2 double pack I bought along with ToEE. I ended up screwing my wizard out of a lot of spells by level gaining them instead of scroll copying and he was the one crafting everything. I'm sure I'll do better next time around. Thanks for the advice...

    Codeguru
     
  3. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

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    Normal penalties for two-weapon fighting are -6 for the primary weapon and -10 for the secondary weapon. The feat reduces these penalties to -4/-4. Having a light off-hand weapon reduces them to -2/-2. So you can get an extra attack for a -2 to all your attack rolls. There's some debate of the usefulness for fighters, but for rogues, this is devastating, because it means you can deal extra sneak attack damage.

    Take a 10th level rogue with short swords, TWF and Improved TWF and Weapon Finesse, a Dex of 20, Strength of 10. Assume no magical items or weapons (unlikely at this point, but it just makes things easier.)

    The rogue can make normally make two attacks at +12/+7. (+7/+2 base attack, plus +5 from Dex for weapon finesse.) TWF and ITWF makes this four attacks at +10/+10/+5/+5. Each attack only does 1d6 points of damage, for a maximum of 24 and average of 12. No big deal.

    If the Rogue sneak attacks, he gets to add +5d6 to each of those attacks (Plus, if he has the Crippling Strike ability, he's reducing his opponent's Strength by 2 points with every hit.) which gives us a maximum of 144 and an average of 72, plus 8 points of strength damage. That's pretty impressive and matches or exceeds what a fighter of the same level can dish out.
     
  4. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

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    to be honest my rogues are normally archers that also use shortswords. ranged sneak attacks are good (get a composide short bow) I often pair it up with a ranger who has similar skills to go on point when clearing dungeons. I think my best character was a 4 fighter 6 ranger 10 rogue who specialised in bastard sword TWF

    add in the stuff in the above post with a favoured enemy (free TWF feats and fighter feats) and just try taking him on
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2006
  5. Woj

    Woj Member

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    What qualifies for a "light off-hand weapon"? A 1d6 weapon?
    You guys mentioned Rapier as possible mainhand weapon are rogues auto proficient with it? Descirption says Martial Weapon; Rapier.

    If I'd want to mix in a level of figher to get extra feats, how to do it?
    I have only one rogue as my faceman, if i take 3 rogue levels then say 1 fighter level and then rogue all the way to 20 am I hit with any exp penalties? Is there a better way to mix-in a fighter level?
     
  6. Daryk

    Daryk Veteran Member

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    I usually go with an elf Rogue/Fighter, keeping them within a level of each other, though I've toyed wtih the idea of Fighter 9/Rogue 11 at the end. As a (composite) bow rogue, Rapid Shot and Weapon Specialization make a great combination. You may not be getting quite all the Sneak Attack dice per attack, but you're getting more attacks (5 when you hit +16 BAB, 6 with Haste), and they're at range.
     
  7. Woj

    Woj Member

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    i like this idea, im taking a human though
    i'd probably go for long-sword/dagger combo then, since it's most realistic xD
    but my faceman skills will suffer coz i will have to add em cross-class half the time ;(
    so i will probably mix less than 9 levels, any idea how to do it without getting hit by xp penalty?
    (if i understand rules correctly i will be fine no matter how i mix them)- not sure bout it tho
     
  8. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

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    The manual breaks down the equipment and skills, but you can always go here:

    http://www.d20srd.org/

    for a quick reference. The game tries to follow these rules to the best of its abilities.

    For rogues: Rogues are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword. Rogues are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

    Humans and half elves count their highest leveled class as their favorite class, so they can multiclass as a Fighter/rogue without penalty. Halflings count rogues as their favorite class so they could as well, and dwarves have fighter as their favored class so they could do it as well.

    As a halfling rogue, if you want him to be a damage dealers, I suggest dual wielding tiny rapiers. They may be only 1d4, but that is better than daggers, and they have a good critical threat range, 18-20, so you can get critical hits along with sneak damage. Take improved critical feat for even more fun. Or go with a composite shortbow and sit back and pick off as many as you can. Team up with a big, great cleaving barbarian and weaken as many as you can by spreading your arrows around and let him wade in and finish them off.
     
  9. Daryk

    Daryk Veteran Member

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    If you take at least four levels of Fighter, you'll get to the magical +16 BAB, and qualify for Weapon Specialization to boot.
     
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