What would you like to see...

I seem to recall Cujo saying the problem was the robe layer removes the armor/clothing layer, so if you threw a tabbard on someone, they would be naked under it. There's no way to get the tabbard to match up with the armor being worn.

 

ok; i've got my stuff going into max now, anyone got any tips for the best way to test a new helm?

is it better to create a new item or to replace an existing one?

 

here's a render, from max; next to the 64x64 UV map :kirby:

 

bones dont generally render anyway, i dont think them showing through will be an issue

 

For testing purposes you could change the mesh of a helmet to see
if it even works. Then however it would be a good thing if you added
a new protos.tab, meshes.mes and addmesh.mes slots for it.

 

Isn't all of this a bit like re-inventing the wheel? There are already hordes of guardsmen types out there. Talk to Cuchulainn about them. I'm sure he can give you the low down on how to create new clothes for them. As for creating an entirely new model...it's your time to spend as you like, but if the quality doesn't take a quantum leap forward, this'll never get into a Co8 sanctioned release.

 

We all gotta start somewhere. I just appreciate the fact that he is trying. The idea that any of you guys can do this boggles my mind. If Ioannis wants to begin with sculpting a guardsman, more power to him. I say, keep it up man. It's looking better and better.

 

I'd say it needs better textures and his feet fixed.

 

(smile) Wouldn't say that, anatomically, it's not without its faults and it couldn't use some help, but it kicks the hell outta what I could produce. Just all for supporting someone who is willing to throw it out there on a site where 80% of the posters seem to know model creation inside and out.

 

As with all things; the only way to learn is to practice

I gotta say that even simple codey stuff like the protos.tab are scary! Out of interest, are there any specific tips/tutorials floating around regarding items?

If not i'll just try to apply the stuff from the Vrock PC sticky, though i dont think theres new mesh stuff in there

 

Use phalzyr's protoedit. I think there are some tutorials.
Or give me the model and I'll do it for you, it's 10 minutes
of work.

 

While i will agree that there are some things that would need to change with ioannis' work in order for it to be deemed 'good enough' by my eye, they are stumbling blocks that need to be tackled one at a time, teaching yourself to model + animate without any formal educational training is no easy task.

Criticism is only useful if its constructive, so perhaps it might be best to review what you guys have said and actually say what you dont think works. A lot of my work has flaws, and does not meet the standard of that found in game, and i have had 3d modelling/animation education. What people said regarding the mind flayer; and providing reference shots as well is actually very helpful. 'this is too short' 'this needs to be fatter' 'lower the eyes'.

As far as the wisdom of modelling another guardsman is concerned, it may be kind of redundant, but starting out by modelling some monstrous/strange creature with a horribly complex bone-system and animating it perfectly just doesnt happen . However, i myself am trying to avoid modelling anything at the moment that can be adequately achieved with a new texture on an existing model. By trying to create something very similar to something already in the game, you are putting yourself right up against the standard of their professional animators, which is, i assume, why people are worried about the quality.

However, starting out with a simple, low-poly humanoid is one of the best ways to fiddle with animation, and many of the basic animation tutorials found floating around the net help you learn how to animate using just that.

If i were to do an in-depth critique of ioannis' work in an effort to help him improve i would do this:

You should probably enhance shading on your model as relying on in-game lighting to do it for you will rarely work, and there may be none at all in some games. Start darkening areas under arms/flaps/the helm and so on, as well as lightening raised areas.

The belt/scabbard need work in order to make them look a little more realistic; you've used a wooden texture for the lot, which might scale down well in-game, but if you're planning on that to happen ideally you should use a smaller uv-map anyway, consider less wood, and more leather, buckles, metal edging and so on. Also consider putting a little more shape on the sword pommel, although again, at a small scale this will be difficult to notice, so may not be a high priority.

The clothing could use with some kind of 'folds' worked into the texture, though nothing over the top. The edge of the coif where it joins the face texture is far too square and needs to be more organic/form-fitting.

With regards to animating the sword-sheathing, you've set yourself a difficult task. In order to avoid having the sword clip through the scabbard when it is sheathed you'll need to put a bone in the scabbard, so that as he starts to insert the sword you rotate it to the same angle.

There is also some texture stretching going on - your chain coif has a very high horizontal density, which clashes with the rest of the chain on the model.

A little tip, if you are having trouble creating your own textures; whether they be regular or organic; look into making your own brushes in photoshop (or whichever program you are using to create your textures) a 'scaly' brush goes a long way in covering reptiles for example.

Here's a veryyyyy quick and nasty photoshop of one of your images that shows areas of shading and such.

Baby steps are the only way to learn, and they're always going to be 'marginal'

 

Okay. I suggest the two of you do as you are doing, and stick to things needed for KotB.

We don't really need new models for anything that hasn't been created already for KotB. Even a horse can be based on the skelton of something already in existence in the game. A few new skins, perhaps....

That's one reason. Another is the modders who have gone before. They have met or exceeded these standards, and it isn't fair to expect less from anyone else following their footsteps. Many of them are still around. Look them up & get their advice. They have left information a-plenty to aid the less experienced.

Unfortunately, the last thing needed for this game is another humanoid animation. Kobolds are miniature lizardmen re-skinned. Why not try dissecting one of those models to figure out animation? It's how Allyx made dragons. And, aren't there things with fewer bones? Maybe one of them would be easier than a guard.

So, why not learn the re-skinning aspect of things first, then tackling animation? At least he could get colors & textures down before moving on to the part that even the long time modders here haven't mastered yet. Leksey (creator of the model viewer) is the only one who's even gotten close so far. It would help the community with KotB, and help ioannis build his basic skills.

 

I don't disagree with what you're saying spike; one only has to read the patch notes on the Co8 releases to realise the sheer astounding quality of whats been done in the past. But all i am trying to convey is that i believe that if ioannis is interested in learning 3d modelling/animation, he is going about it the correct way, regardless of redundance/quality level and so on. Tackling someone else's UV maps/models/animations in any capacity beyond simple changes can often be very difficult - tackling them when you've never made your own is even harder.

With that said, the entire reason that i started this thread was to find out what other people wanted to be added. Holding that in mind, any extra requests etc like the beetle/spider skins and so on really help actually give some direction, and create something concrete as opposed to the models that i have made but are currently un-implementable.

I'm particularly interested by the horse thing, the leucrotta idea might be workable; though to my mind they're too canine in appearance.

Any suggestions from the KotB team would be greatly appreciated for things to do