What to do about Dominate Suggestable Monster

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by Kalshane, Oct 28, 2006.

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How should Suggestion be handled?

Poll closed Nov 11, 2006.

  1. Leave it alone. I like being able to control everything in the game with a 3rd level spell.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  2. Remove Suggestion from the game, using the code as the basis for Dominate Monster

    19 vote(s)
    73.1%

  3. Let the spell function as-is, but tweak it to be less powerful (shorten the duration)

    7 vote(s)
    26.9%
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  1. JerryB

    JerryB Established Member

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    DOes anyone still have those testing tools? I see a need for a lot of testing coming up.
     
    JerryB, Nov 1, 2006
    #31
  2. HeJason

    HeJason JK2 Deity

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    I would say leave it as is, but make it easier to save against so you can only use it on low level creatures that arent worth taking up a character slot.. I would say implement the standard rules Dominate Monster so spell casters can get it at the 9 CL. (A 9th level caster should be able to do just about anything they want anyways ;)
     
    HeJason, Nov 1, 2006
    #32
  3. Cerulean the Blue

    Cerulean the Blue Blue Meanie Veteran

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    They are included in 5.0.0 in wand form, but only available through the console as they are for testing only. In later iterations of 5.0.1 they were also castable from a rod that is once again only available through the console.
     
    Cerulean the Blue, Nov 2, 2006
    #33
  4. JerryB

    JerryB Established Member

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    I came up with an idea while posting in another thread and it's probably more appropriate here.

    Would it satisfy those who would like to reduce the power of suggestion if it were changed to make it only work on those whom one could affect with a charm person spell, while dominate monster affects those susceptible to charm monster?

    I'm guessing that whatever code limits charm person to certain targets could be pasted (spliced?) into the current version of suggestion to limit it in this manner, while the unaultered current version would be copied intact, renamed, and assigned a higher level. I'm just guessing there though since I'm not a programer (and barely a typist).

    That solution would significantly reduce the power of suggestion while preserving it for for variant party building as long as a player only wanted to build a "person" based party. Those who want to go way outside the box and recruit dragons would need to wait for dominate monster.

    I found the testing tool, with help from a good dude here, but I feel really uneasy about giving a lower level character a tool with the other functions of that item. Talk about out of balance!

    A simple rod that allows recruitment would be much more in line with what I'm looking for.

    Thanks for listening.
     
    JerryB, Nov 2, 2006
    #34
  5. Cerulean the Blue

    Cerulean the Blue Blue Meanie Veteran

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    You must have found the rod. I did say it was a testing tool. Balance was not a consideration in making it. The wands just do one of the recruitment spells each: Enslavement or Infatuation. The one you are looking for is Enslavement.
     
    Cerulean the Blue, Nov 2, 2006
    #35
  6. Hazelnut

    Hazelnut Great Confusor

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    Just to let you all know I am now working on this change. :)
     
    Hazelnut, Nov 9, 2006
    #36
  7. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    (thread ressurection)

    It looks like Hazelnut never did actually do this (I don't think). The poll seems to indicate pretty decisive support for changing Suggestion to Dominate Monster. Shall we? Just changing the spell name and level shouldn't be too difficult, I don't think.
     
    Gaear, Mar 19, 2008
    #37
  8. maggit

    maggit Zombie RipTorn Wonka

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    Yup, but you also should make sure that no monster/NPC has Suggestion in his/her spell list.
     
    maggit, Mar 19, 2008
    #38
  9. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Okay, thanks for the tip, maggit. :thumbsup: I'll look into it.
     
    Gaear, Mar 20, 2008
    #39
  10. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Okay, I've got Suggestion changed to Dominate Monster across the board and it works fine, but I need some input on what to do with all the suggestion-related items/NPCs in-game. They are:

    Helm of Telepathy (cast suggestion once per day)
    Mandolin of Charming (user can cast Suggestion)
    Darley
    Balor
    Zaxis
    Lamia
    Enchantress (Liv's gang of thugs)

    I assume the balor should have Dominate Monster, but what about the others? Other 3rd level wizard/sorcerer enchantment spells are Deep Slumber, Heroism, Hold Person, and Rage. Other 2nd level Bard enchantment spells beyond these are Animal Trance, Calm Emotions, and Daze Monster.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2008
    Gaear, Apr 2, 2008
    #40
  11. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

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    replace as each one with the most appropriate spell for the encounter/character as you see fit.
     
    Cujo, Apr 2, 2008
    #41
  12. Half Knight

    Half Knight Gibbering Mouther

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    Helm of Telepathy (cast suggestion once per day)---Hold person (the most "telepathic" of the spells you mention)
    Mandolin of Charming (user can cast Suggestion)---Calm Emotions (the most logical choice, and besides, bards shouldn't have aggresive spells)
    Darley---Deep slumber or Hold person (demons usually prefer these)
    Balor---same as Darley
    Zaxis---if available, Heroism, or Daze monster
    Lamia---Hold person or rage (they usually prefer melee combat)
    Enchantress (Liv's gang of thugs)---Deep slumber?

    That's my personal opinion of course, based in the type of monster/creature, and in the case of items, to not have overpowered stuff.

    Btw, i say "calm emotions", but i never see it have effect, except in MY charcters when they get caught in the area, it always have the worst effect (if my charcter it's raging, but someone casted fear on him, it will cease the rage, but not the fear, which it should :yawn: )...and enemys not affected at all, that's bad luck or the bugbear's rage it's impossible to dismiss
     
    Half Knight, Apr 2, 2008
    #42
  13. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    Personally (and this is just me) I think any individual spell-caster encountered by themselves, like Darley, should (imho) have Summon Monster / Animal / Spiritual Weapon. There's no point casting something like Hold Person when there is no-one else there to deliver the coup de grace.
     
    Shiningted, Apr 2, 2008
    #43
  14. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Thanks for the input, guys.

    @HK - I think the balor is going to have to stay with Dominate Monster (formally Suggestion), mainly because Kalshane (the original author of this initiative) thought that he should retain that ability (as opposed to the spell). (Insert further irritating use of parenthesis here. ;))

    As for the rest, I'm fine with giving Darley a summon spell, per Ted; I like Daze Monster for Zaxis; I was thinking Heroism for the enchantress, making one of those thugs even more punishing :eek:mg: ; I refuse to add another raging enemy to the game, so I'm thinking Hold Person or a summon spell for the Lamia.

    Bear in mind also that some of these NPCs already have some of the alternative spells, so that shortens the list.

    As for the items, I like Calm Emotions for the mandolin. It sounds like that spell is problematic, but I agree that something along those lines best suits bards. You would think that playing a little tune on a mandolin would relax everybody, wouldn't you? I don't think the Helm of Telepathy should be Hold Person though because there are already a few wands of Hold Person in the game. Maybe Deep Slumber would be better for that.

    Thanks again - will probably post this up later today. :)
     
    Gaear, Apr 2, 2008
    #44
  15. Half Knight

    Half Knight Gibbering Mouther

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    Gaear: polite as always. ;)
    So everyone it's happy then :)

    My only complaint, would be the helm, since yes, there are lots of wands, but all useable only by wiz/sorc and/or clerics. Besides, Deep slumber it's too powerful, since you can put to sleep lots of oponents at once, and then "coup de grace" them. Sure, with Hold person you can do the same , but only to one opponent.

    If you're willing, there's a helm that summons creatures, ranging from summon I to summon III, and it has something like 10 charges...that would make it powerful, but with a limit. I could check the book for it if you like.
    Or give him Command, but useable more than once time x day (3 would be fine)
     
    Half Knight, Apr 2, 2008
    #45
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