Volunteers needed - Reactive Temple Mod

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by Sitra Achara, Jul 18, 2008.

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  1. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    I like the look of that. :) It's cool that those large rooms would actually be used for something significant.

    Maybe we should make the PnP module inquiry again. Does it say that each temple has x number of bugbears, human troops, etc.?
     
  2. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

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    I separated the groups so that the player party would be sandwiched no matter which door they came through, though I wonder if all groups would be activated no matter which door was used. No AoE spell can catch all 3 groups, either. The group around Kelno is spread out so they can attack the NE door or the SW door. You can maintain some of this by moving the troops closer to the center, but then AoE spells become more of a problem.
    Can an area spell be targeted in the central well?

    Tell me how to change it, but try it out first. The main things I see about the room are the 3 doors and central well.
     
  3. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    Hmm, what happened to my post?

    Anyway, here's the Air Temple layout. I tried to mix up the groups so that if one group is eliminated, there'd still be troops spread around the room.

    Next up - Water Temple.

    By the way, I've learned that the initiative queue has an upper limit of 30 - any combatants over that number will simply stand around and do nothing, at least until one of their comrades perishes and clears a slot in the queue.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 25, 2008
  4. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    Water was pretty quick. I changed some of your coordinates, Guardian, but it was largely the same.

    Here's the result.

    On a side note, I ran into the multiple Juggernauts bug. Heh.
    It seems that since the Juggernaut statue is embedded in the sector, it tends to re-appear when the sector is reloaded. So even if a script destroys the object, another one might reappear in its stead. Maybe I'll hide the original statue instead of destroying it, then.
     

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  5. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

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    Didn't think of that. So, should it be tested with parties coming through the doors?

    I am afraid of a Water Temple traffic jam up by the front. Same test.

    Are you going to do Fire?
     
  6. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    Looks great!

    Re the number of bugbears, I don't know what the module says, but I've always assumed they got wiped out in the war.
     
  7. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    Yeah, it should be tested for initiating combat while at the door. By the way, in case you want to test it yourself - you can load up the itt.py file (from itt import *) and fire up the functions:

    air_reg()
    water_reg()
    earth_reg()

    Note that you need to put jumppoint.tab and protos.tab inside the data\rules folder, otherwise bad things might happen.
    If you want the Water Bugbear defectors on Air's side, you have to persuade them to defect, or alternatively bring up the console and set game.global_flags[108] = 1.
    Likewise for Oohlgrist, if you want him to join Water without the hassle then type game.global_flags[112] = 1 (and if you want the defectors to be in water, leave flag 108 at 0).
    For testing purposes I also made an alternative check for your party leader's constitution score being 50 or greater, so I don't have to set those flags all the time. (i.e. if your con is >= 50, Oohlgrist and the Water Bugbears will automatically be transferred). I think you should be able to easily modify this to suit your needs.

    As for the Water Fight, there might be somewhat of a jam, but my experience has been that most of the critters get their turn before the Juggernaut, so there's at least 3-4 of them that manage to get to the party, and the Juggernaut has reach so it can attack from behind them. Trolls, Watersnakes have reach too, and Belsornig and his priests will be casting spells anyway. So it's not that bad.
    The question is, what happens when you open up only one door? Is the AI smart enough to open the second one?

    Anyway, I think I'll take a break from critter placement this weekend, and start doing the behind the scenes logic and scripting that will trigger these things in the first place. You can continue working on Fire if you're up to it.
     

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  8. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Just had an idea - should we do something similar for Lareth and the Moathouse? I always thought it was goofy that you'd find him in his office filing his nails after all his troops were dead, even days or weeks later.
     
  9. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    I've always thought so too, but I'm not sure what should be done exactly. Do we simply make him run away, or just add reinforcements?

    If we make him run away, we'd have to provide some closure. I think it would be nice to add a caption decal to the floor where you butchered his men, reading in all capitals 'DIE', and written in his men's blood. His drawers would become trapped and contain nothing, or perhaps a cursed item and a few coins. (who could remove the curse? Also, we'd better make picking it up interesting for the player, otherwise it'd simply be avoided with Power Word Reload)
     
  10. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    The best way to remove curses should be the 'remove curse' spell, at least for the moathouse where parties are unlikely to have instant access to a 3rd level spell (curses on items encountered later in the game should have some additional requirement). Having a quick look, it should be simple enough to check if the target is an item then cause the item to be dropped. Again, something I want in KotB - atm, the only cursed items there are a couple of cursed potions and such that just blow up in your face: no need for a spell.

    The floor decal sounds fabulous, but really, who kills the men, leaves and comes back without confronting Lareth? Hardly worth the effort - a simple timed 'OF_OFF' or attachee.destroy() would do it.
     
  11. Hugh Manetee

    Hugh Manetee Established Member

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    This is looking good. I've been playing your mods for some time they keep getting me back into the game. Lately I've lost interest once my pcs get to about 5th level.
    One thing which has started really bugging me is Smigal Redhand or whatever her name is. If she escapes her first encounter she doesn't heal herself just waits for you to return in a mortally wounded state. If she is going to move after the first encounter maybe she should leave 2 or 3 assasins similar to the one the traders send after you. Also once you leave a level and come back it would make sense that guards are posted at the entrances to different levels. I'm going to try some modding when I get some time in about a month.
    Cheers All
     
  12. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    For the Moathouse, I'd suggest the defensive posture thing in Lareth's area, with any remaining troops - gnolls, bugbears, undead, the ogre - staged there with the existing human troops if you have killed one or more groups of monsters already and then left to sell stuff and heal up.

    This should probably not include the bandits, inside or outside, as to my understanding they're not Lareth's troops and aren't even aware of his presence below.

    I don't think Lareth should flee, as that would cause a whole bunch of other complications to attempt to deal with. Plus, I believe he's supposed to be very proud and brazen by nature - not the type to be chased away.

    Speaking of all this, it's long been a percieved problem (with new complaints leveled just the other day) that Lareth doesn't join his troops during the battle outside his office. It would be great if he did do that. But if he's not going to, he should at least initiate dialogue when you enter his quarters. The way it is right now, you can kill all his men and then walk in there, and he just waits for you to say something like he's not bothered. If his guys are dead, he should start in with the "you have earned my wrath" business immediately, followed by combat, rather than interview for temple recruits.

    I still have a gnawing feeling that we previously found some reason we couldn't bring Lareth out for that battle btw ... no idea what it might have been atm.
     
  13. Lord_Spike

    Lord_Spike Senior Member Veteran

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    Lareth is a battle priest, and should have the twf skill. The module's got him meleeing after casting spells & setting the order of battle. He uses the mace in one hand & the staff (yeah, I know...) in the other. Perhaps some exotic tweakery is in order. It's not supposed to be an easy fight.

    Temple troops: recruitment is very active. The battle was ten years ago, and the agents of evil are everywhere...Dyvers, among other places. Losses can be replaced at the rate of 1 per day for humans & humanoids of less than 3+1 hit dice (goblins, gnolls, human bandits). For humans/humanoids of 3+1 or more (bugbears, ogres, giants, etc.), then it's one every 3 days. For other large monsters (lamia, elementals, dragons...), it's one per week.

    NOTE: The temples forces are actually supposed to grow if the party isn't pressing them hard...UNLESS the leaders are dead. Then, the recruiting mechanism breaks down.

    I know this is major stuff, but you're a creative bunch. Have fun.
     
  14. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    I am really really REALLY in favour of losses being replaced over time - (expect it in KotB where the Caves will be set up that way from the start - returning scouting parties etc).
    I think it was a combination of stopping the whole ruckus for Lareth to speak his piece, plus making everything fit with the various options he might present, plus what to do about his men if he joins and you leave? "Bye, Seluecas, see you in the spring!" None of these is insurmountable but coming up with something that ticked all the boxes in a logical and satisfying way might be complicated.
     
  15. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Based on this, it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that Alrrem had completely replenished his losses from Emridy Meadows ten years earlier. He does say that he's still low on troops though, so maybe some compromise is in order. Like just add a handful of additional bugbears to him, and maybe half a dozen human troops, that sort of thing. I know we don't want to pump a bunch more XP into the mix, but at least something to get beyond that 'troopless troop commander' contradiction would be good.

    Likewise for Belsornig. It's odd that the so called weakest temple (air) would have the second greatest number of troops, while the second strongest (water) would have almost none.

    Yeah, that rings a bell. Our modern-day capabilities must have the upper hand here now though. ;)

    We could have the troops do the runoff thing in the event of Lareth joining up, or respawn them in the temple later. Maybe even script some complex scenario wherein Hedrack gets pissed about the forward outpost being abandoned after Seleucas and co. get back there and report it. Liv had great success with that return-to-an-old-issue-later approach. People love that sort of stuff.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2008
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