Volunteers needed - beta testing next Temple+ release

My bad. It is correct in the combat log . SMH, I was looking at the wrong character for weapon focus and wf Javelin does indeed display.

Only the character sheet needs a look - for the correct brutal throwAB display and the halfling thrown bonus AB with javelin equipped.

 

There is a small contradiction describing Stormlord.

• The level-up screen states Weapon Focus Deity's weapon or javelin.
• The Help menu class description states Weapon Focus any spear or javelin.

At present, my test subjects fall under both conditions, so I can't currently identify which one is more accurate.

 

I don't think this problem is related to _doug_'s Brutal Throw Feat; as can be seen from the omission of the halfling throw bonus it is a failure of the original ToEE game to completely address the relatively few thrown weapons which cannot be used in melee on the character sheet.

Incidentally it would seem reasonable for a halfling to be able to stab someone with their javelin (they can't)

 

You may be correct.

And that reminds me to note that the javelin description needs to be changed to "only can be thrown" to avoid confusion. The javelin description is currently identical to that of the spear. I suppose it becomes obvious when equipped, but still...

(Some of this thrown stuff is not obvious to me at first look. I've never really bothered with investing in thrown weapons that much in past plays. This time I'm planning on slowly working through all the thrown feats like Power throw, Quick Draw, etc with Stormlord javelin/spear. In order to see if they work and to compare the investment.)

 

Looking at your image post to a different thread, I was wondering if that reach tweak might be worth adding into this test beta? It could be good time to test and compare with all the various kind of spear testing (Stormlord, etc). I've got a collection of low-level characters: longspears (halforc->stormlord, other spears-almost exclusively for throwing at this point + spike chain(Tuelk).

 

Yeah that's the intention. Still got some work to do before it's ready, I'll let you know when it's up.

Sagenlicht's fixes are in btw if anyone wants to test them.

 

Did a quick test and they look good.

Nice. I actually don't think it will change things up that much as all the large creatures will stay within the reach range (because that is their melee range) and it probably will only minimally affect some of the larger small-creature battles - ie, the frontline tanks. And even then, the 5' step will likely help - although often enemies do also counter with 5'...

Re: implementation:

• will reach weapons provoke AoO's much like range weapons, when within close-up melee range?
  
• enlarge effect on reach weapons and the zone of effect?

I'm not sure what the official doctrine is.

 

The only reach weapon that provokes an AoO is a whip, I think. Large creatures with appropriately sized weapons have both the non-threatened and the threatened radius doubled, basically. And Enlarge Person enlarges your carried weapons so that they remain appropriately sized (in theory you could hand someone a normally sized weapon after the fact, but that isn't implemented).

Strictly speaking, the 3.5 rules only talk about what happens with appropriately sized weapons, and you kind of need to decide how to fill things in for other cases if desired. I think there are some technically 3.0 rules that fill in the gaps by saying what reach weapons do based on the intended size of the user. It's a little more complicated, but it makes sense. Like a medium spear offsets your reach by 5, which gives medium wielders a threatened radius of 5-10 (instead of the natural 0-5), and large creatures a threatened radius of 5-15 (instead of natural 0-10).

Pathfinder instead filled in the rule in the way that doesn't make sense, where any reach weapon just doubles the creature's natural reach, irrespective of the size of the weapon. Except whips, which always have a reach of 15, regardless of the creature's reach. That's simple, I guess, but it seems like a crappy rule for a computer game, where avoiding a little arithmetic isn't really that valuable. (Similarly, I think smaller-than-small creatures should probably have natural reach like 2.5 and such, because ToEE can do that; rounding to 0 is only necessary when you're using a grid.)

 

Interesting.
About Enlarge Person: There actually is some logic for choosing whether to enlarge the weapon along with the character, but currently it only considers single vs two handed wielding benefits/penalties (and it is applied automatically without explicit user choice). With reach weapons, it's not clear what the user would prefer (extended range vs dead zone). I'm starting to think it needs the radial options treatment.

 

I'll try to post a collection of issues each time in order to not clutter but also give some time to inspect. I'll do the same on the spells.

• Emeryd's Run crashes. I crashed 3 times before I succeeded in getting through. I have a save game before that, if any further suggested tests are needed. I've attached a crash dump, and a couple of logs (it only dumped for one crash). The only difference of the successful run, is that I did not use druid's Produce Flame, which I had previously. (no idea).
• Bard's fascinate is all over the place. Perform 13 (Zaxis) = dc 20/dc14 on 2 owlbears (+1 racial/+1 wisdom) and dc27/dc30 on 2 wolves (+1 wisdom). Latest beta build.
  
• All armor with skill check penalties seems to apply 1 less than is described. ie, a medium shield only apples a penalty of 1. (Affects tumble, mostly). No armor oil involved.
  
• Very minor: Eyeglasses + scales don't stack but the character sheet shows them both in misc skill category
• Very minor: I wanted to grab Tuelk for some testing...and I was able to waltz in with no robes and release them and the other prisoners in front of the Temple guards and exit the temple. No combat. Probably no one ever wants Tuelk, so ...ehh.

 

Fascinate's DC is based on a perform check, so it can vary by 20.

Right now it does one perform check per target, but maybe it should just do one check for all targets. I think the problem, though, is that during combat, the script does a new check on each creature's turn because of the threat, and it's a little difficult to only do one perform check per round in that scenario. Maybe it could be done, though.

 

I did some searching on fascinate and I wonder if the 3.5 shake-free could be implemented much like the sleep wake-up? This could compensate somewhat for ToEE's use. All references seem to suggest any combat at all (friendly/enemy) should cancel the effect, which would suggest that it really should not be a thing in ToEE - the way it is implemented now.

I'd suggest some interpretation is needed to justify a DC of perform +d20 in combat...which is ToEE's focus.

 

Yeah. Another aspect that is wrong is that fascinate is supposed to require concentration, and concentration is supposed to use the caster's standard action each round. So, you shouldn't be able to fascinate and also attack, for instance.

Oh, it also lasts indefinitely, but it's supposed to last at most 1 round per bard level.

 

This is how I ran reach in 3.x tabletop:

Reach weapons have donut reach except for weapons (like spiked chains) which attack adjacently and at reach.
Non-reach weapons attack only adjacently because they lack 'reach'.

 

Pushed update with dolio's Greater Mirror Image and 1st iteration of Reach Weapon fix.

I think the issues you'll currently encounter with the latter are:
- Will still make AOOs in inner donut (perhaps only graphically)
- Whirlwind attack might work in inner range I think
- AI with reach weapons might be fucked or act stupid
I haven't actually tested those, it's just what I think will happen in theory. Testing these would be most welcome.
I also recreated the code that handles location checking (single) attacks, so gotta make sure I didn't screw up anything there: does cover work correctly? (e.g. when hitting someone in 2nd rank with reach weapon) Do closed doors block attacks? Attacking around corners (shouldn't be possible, unless enemy is partially visible in which case it should provide cover)?

Edit: oops, looks like I screwed normal weapons, hehe. Gotta fix that...\
Edit2: should be good now.