Verbobonc Sewers / What Lies Beneath [POSSIBLE SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by HeJason, Oct 12, 2012.

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  1. Crusader

    Crusader Member

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    Re: Verbobonc Sewers / What Lies Beneath

    Thanks! I did not think of that. :)
    I tried it and it did have an effect on one of them (the other I just got stuck i battle with and had no effect) but he got too scared to tell me anything. So I'm back to square one again.

    I was thinking, maybe removing the fear the Day Steward had would be the way to go but that did not work. And it had the effect that he now could go through walls.:dizzy:
     
  2. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    Re: Verbobonc Sewers / What Lies Beneath

    I haven't solved this one either.
    I think I'm gonna throw a few charm spells around and see what happens, hmmmm wonder if I can dominate them and MAKE them tell me what I want to know.

    There is always the torture choice ... Mahwahhahahahahahah ... Cough cough hack
     
  3. Crusader

    Crusader Member

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    Re: Verbobonc Sewers / What Lies Beneath

    Let me know how the charm spells go. I have no character that can use that spell in my party right now so I can't check.

    Edit: I forgott to check my Sorcerer.:no: She has Charm. :)

    Not that it helped. The result was the same as with fear. He just starts to mumble and babble something you can't understand. So what no? I'm getting to the end of my ideas.

    Edit 2: Tested Eagle Splendor and it was my Charisma that was to low. But even with that it wasn't high enoth. So I guess I have no way to save the children now. I just have to hope they survive untill I level up some more. :( Unless there is another way to get to them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2012
  4. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    OK I will, right now I'm a little caught up in the new X-COM game.

    IT'S FREAKING AWESOME!!
     
  5. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    [POTENTIAL SPOILERS BELOW]

    Alrighty, let's hold hands a bit here.

    ==================================================

    Abiram asks you to do three things:

    1. Find and recover the children
    2. Discover the perpetrator
    3. Locate and bring the perpetrator in

    Abiram lists three possible suspects:

    1. The madman who escaped from the asylum
    2. The day sewer steward
    3. The night sewer steward

    Abiram tells you where to conduct your investigation and where not to conduct your investigation:

    • Verbobonc sewers - yes
    • Everywhere else - no

    Abiram tells you what the council considers a good case - three pieces in total of these types of evidence:

    1. Things - e.g. physical evidence
    2. Confessions - e.g. someone saying "I did it"
    3. Implications - e.g. testimony of others against others

    So we need to rescue the children, find three pieces of evidence to implicate one of the suspects, and then bring them in and/or narc them out to Good Captain Abiram.

    ==================================================

    Using basic deduction, we can see that the clearest courses of action to achieve these ends are:

    For objective 1 (find the children):

    • Method 1: look for them.
    • Method 2: get someone to give you information about their whereabouts

    For objective 2 (discover the perpetrator):
    • Gather information.
      • Method 1: talk to people. Abiram told you who the principals are and that you won't find anybody but the principals in the sewers, so the possibilities are very limited here.
        • Goal 1: get a principal to confess
        • Goal 2: get a principal to implicate another principal
        • Goal 3: get a principal to give you other helpful information
      • Method 2: collect physical evidence.

    For objective 3 (locate and bring in the perpetrator)

    • Method 1: look for them.
    • Method 2: get someone to give you information about their whereabouts
    ==================================================

    Tools needed

    We can see from examining the information above that we will probably be doing a lot of searching and talking.

    Searching

    Ask yourself, "who would I want to search for me?" Would it be someone incompetent at searching? Probably not. You would probably rather have someone who is good at searching. Then ask yourself "What does it take to be good at searching in D&D?" Answers may range from good search skills to good spot skills to good listen skills. Then ask yourself, "how do I stack the deck in my favor?" Answers would include stat increasing spells and items, and using characters that are natively more adept at searching to maximize your chances at success.

    Talking

    Ask yourself, "who would I want working a case and trying to crack suspects for me?" Would it be someone who is not very smart and has limited social skills? Probably not. You would probably rather have someone who is smart and knows how to talk to people. Then ask yourself "What does it take to be smart and know how to talk to people in D&D?" Answers will probably center on good social skills. Bluff? Sure, you might have to tell a few tales to get what you want. Diplomacy? Yeah, good cop bad cop doesn't work without it. Intimidate? Always helps to be able to be a hardass in a pinch. Gather information? Yes, being as you are gathering information, this is important. Sense Motive? Could prove very helpful. Then ask yourself, "how do I stack the deck in my favor?" Answers would include stat increasing spells and items, and using characters that have invested lots of points in the needed skills. A barbarian? Noooo. A rogue? Yes!

    Ability to think creatively

    Let's say we're working on objective 1 - to find the children. So we employee method 1 and look for them but we can't find them. Does that mean we quit and give up? No! Clever investigators will move to a different method, such as method 2 where we talk to people.

    Being details oriented

    Peculiarities of behavior

    If we are shrewd and notice little things, we will note certain clues about the suspects that may help us. These include but are not limited to hard-to-decipher details such as Abiram openly telling you what makes the suspects tick, and the suspects themselves telling you what their quirks and vulnerabilities are.

    • Panathaes, the asylum escapee | Abiram says he's crazy. Panathaes acts crazy and cooperates not one bit. And he seems kind of sleepy. And Abiram tells you to knock him out. :)scratchhe Hmm, conscious = get nowhere ... there must be another way. Think, man! :scratchhe)

    • Boroquin, the day steward | Abiram says he's borderline crazy. He acts surefire crazy. And after you exhaust all avenues of conversation with him, he refuses to talk further and screams at you that he doesn't trust you. :)scratchhe Hmm, doesn't trust = won't talk ... :scratchhe)

    • Rakham, the night steward | Abiram says he's pretty normal, and he acts pretty normal, if a bit of a tough nut to crack. After you exhaust all avenues of conversation with him, he refuses to talk further and says he's not afraid of you. :)scratchhe Hmm, not afraid = won't talk ... :scratchhe)

    Clever investigators will, once again, use the things they learn and observe about their suspects to exploit their weaknesses and get the information they need. :) Unclever investigators will simply fail the quest.
     
  6. Crusader

    Crusader Member

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    I hear what you are saying. And I have done most of it. Offcorse I use the character that has best Diplomacy and/or Bluff and highest Charisma to make him talk. I also know who to use fear on and who to charm. But I can only get through the first coversation check but not past the "Where?". I have used all the buffs I have and still I can't get them to tell me where.

    I also tried to pickpocket evidence but I could not confront him about what i found.

    As for Panathaes, I haven't even found him.

    I also searched the whole sewers with the Secret Door spel and Searching every place that look like it can have a hidden door.



    Edit: Finaly I got one to talk. But when I took him with me to turn him in I got attacked by the guards. I guess they did not like that I had charmed him. I don't know how I'll get him in to Captain Abiram now.

    And now I can't find the Night Steward. He's just gone from his rounds. It's irritating because I know he's also guilty. To top it I can't find the children where they are said to be so I guess he lied about that even when he was charmed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2012
  7. HeJason

    HeJason JK2 Deity

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    [POSSIBLE SPOILERS] More like a hint
    Do the rabbit hole quest before the sewer quest,
    Buying the Castle initiates the rabbit hole quest, then ask the gnome at the end of the rabbit hole questions, and bring lots of money. He gives lots of info.
    Highlight the above text to view
     
  8. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    WOW! That's about as close to spelling it out for us without giving it away as you could possibly go, Gaear. nicely done!

    Now, if I just wasn't so darn dumb ... This IS going to be rewarding when I figure it out, so I think I'll abandon this thread for a while.

    Btw ... If you're viewing this on an iPad you can't highlight the spoilers, at least I haven't figured it out yet. ;)
     
  9. Crusader

    Crusader Member

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    I have heard that the rabbit hole doesn't work anymore.

    Anyway, I tried to use Console Commands to buff my stats to se if something is wrong and even with 56 in Search and 47 in Spot I still can't find t5he children where they are supose to be hiding. So unless you need Search and Spot to be even higher than that, I would say that the quest have been broken in some way.
     
  10. Crusader

    Crusader Member

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    Huh. Rabbit Hole DID work. :D But still, after doing what I was told I still end up att the same place and I still can't find any children there even if I boost all my stats to max. So the quest must be broken. I have no more clues. I have made the Day Steward talk to me, I have made him tell the truth and he has told me where the children are and STILL nothing. And I can't find the Nigfht Steward anymore. He's just gone since I got the Day Steward to talk.

    Am I missing something? Are the children
    hiding in the room with the tables and chairs under the Merchant's Row or not?
    I feel like I'm loosing my mind over this.
     
  11. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    Hey Crusader, if you're getting too frustrated I bet if you PM'd Gaear he would clue you in with a spoilerific solution, just please don't post the spoilers here. ;)
     
  12. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Fortunately this quest is not easy to spoil with locations and whatnot, which may become more apparent as time goes on, but yes, please avoid stating anything outright.

    Crusader, did Abiram also ask you to find the asylum escapee? Maybe you should go look for him. :p
     
  13. HeJason

    HeJason JK2 Deity

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    Another hint, You have to almost step on them for them to be found. Dont just walk down the center of the halls, walk in every single nook and cranny. I think the exp gained for this quest should be huge for the amount of time and detective work it takes.
     
  14. Crusader

    Crusader Member

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    I search by every
    table for them, since they where supose to be hiding by one.
    And yes, I expect Exp to make me gain 5 levels atleast for this quest. :p

    Yea, he did. And I haven't found even a hint of him anywhere in the sewars. Only the 2 Stewards and the Lizardman. I don't even know where to start searching for him since... well, I already have searched all over the sewars for him and the children so I'm guessing you have to know where he is to find him and non of the Stewards knew/said anything. Myself I started to belive that he wasn't even down there and I expected to find the children and hear that he was dead or something.
    Any help regarding him would make my day. You can PM me if you don't want to say anything here.

    Right now I'm doing a last desperate try to find the Night Steward after I made the Day Steward talk. I'm hoping he can give a bether hint to where the children are. But so far I haven't found him again.

    Edit: FINALY I found the Night Steward. :) But he said the exact thing the Day Steward did (exept for who did it) so the children are still supose to be
    hiding by the tables under Merchant's Row.
    I though maybe I had to talk to Day and Night Steward to be able to find them, but now. They still arn't there. Right now I have all the evidence I should need (3) but still, I would like to find the children also and maybe the mad man if he really is down there.


    Btw, is there a time limit before the children die?
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
  15. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Okay, see spoilers below.

    SPOILERS below

    You have to find and speak to Panathaes (the asylum escapee guy) before the children will appear. This is scripted behavior.

    Panathaes may be in any of eight hiding spots in the sewers that tend to be at the ends of hallways and whatnot. I'm not going to point them all out for you.

    As was said above, you have to be very near him and the children to detect them - within 10 in-game feet. This is done automatically by a PC party member who has a spot skill of 19 or greater.

    Both Panathaes and the children are concealed/hiding, which means that when you detect them, they will suddenly appear and stand up.

    If you are having trouble finding them, look for ripples in the water that appear where there appears to be nothing to cause them.

    SPOILERS above

    Since you reportedly have all the necessary evidence, did you never go to Abiram with it, even without the children?
     
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