Using cleavers to your advantage

I don't see where requiring an exotic weapon feat to use what would ordinarilly be an exotic weapon in 3.5e (since no 3.5e martial weapon ever gets a *3 critical and an increased threat range) is a problem. I would hardly call paying an exotic weapon feat for what ammounts to a free improved critical "wasting" a feat.

 

The cleaver is very unbalanced. It has always been very unbalanced. But then, so are a lot of other things, like NPCs being able to use potions without provoking attacks of opportunity and reach weapons being able to attack adjacent targets. This was discussed extensively earlier (see Krunch's post above for a reference) and eventually dropped because there were many more important things to concentrate upon. Enjoy using the cleaver if you are a cheesemonkey; sell it or don't acquire it in the first place if (like me) you consider it an abomination against rationality.

--Blair
10 days of no quotation and counting. Where is my :rant: video card?!

 

I see your point, but your logic is flawed. What a fighter normally chooses to train with has no bearing on whether or not a weapon requires an exotic weapon feat.

A fighter wouldn't normally train with a bastard sword? Or a Dire Flail? Or even a Spiked Chain? I've had fighters use all three of those weapons in varous table top games.

The Bastard Sword and Dire Flail can be used either 1 or 2 handed, the Spiked Chain and Dire flail can be used to attack normally or to trip, and the Dire flail can be used as a double weapon.

In other words they take extra training to use. How much extra training would a cleaver really need? Now a minimum strength requirement to use a weapon that heavy 1 handed would make much more sense to me, say a min. of 16. But even then most fighters would still be able to use it no problem.

 

The great Cleaver is heavier than a battle axe, heavy mace, war hammer, longsword, bastard sword, dwarven war axe, and it's even heavier than a greatsword, which can't be used one handed at all. It takes an exotic weapon proficiency to use a bastard sword or dwarven war axe one handed without penalty because the weapons are so heavy and they are really more balanced for two handed use. The great cleaver is even heavier (and clunkier) than either one. Using the bastard sword and dwarven war axe as a benchmark, the greatcleaver should require an exotic weapons feat to wield properly with one hand, and since it is unlikely to have a grip large enough to accomodate two handed use there would be no way to use a weapon at all without taking an exotic weapon proficiency.

 

History Channel--->Modern Marvels--->Meat Packing Industry. Saw the show recently; I tried unsuccessfully to find pictures for this thread:

Dudes were hacking up beef carcases with awesome long handled Two-handed meat cleavers. 4' long, easily. No way that someone can use it one-handed, feats or not. Too unwieldy. Very efficient taking apart the carcasses, though. Flesh and bone were cloven with equal ease. It's all about leverage with two-handed weapons.

:dead:

 

CLEAVER IS Probably A POINTLESS WEAPON...

:rant:
Compliments to the person who said that the cleaver is already +1 & Keen when you acquire it from Fruela/Bugbear (it just says great cleaver)

if you try to augment it, it will show that Keen & +1 are already there
with that in mind its true stats are 1d10 19-20 for a crit
might as well use a different weapon.

If you want crit craziness put Keen on a Cutlass or Rapier for a threat range of 16-20
as an example for those dual wielding fiends.

I use that for my Rogue

Scimitar is also a fun choice

whatever you choose, just be aware of the base stats before you get committed

Also, Kudos to people who use the Falchion the graphic of the huge blade looks super cool on armored 6'10" Half Orc characters. definitely style points