ToEE World Builder v1.7.5

Re: ToEE World Builder Public Beta 1

@ Those dedicated modders who are waiting for ToEEWB updates: I'm actively working on Beta R2 right now, which will add a sector tile editor which will allow to modify footstep sounds and sector tile blocking information, and will also fix some minor bugs and inconsistencies (nothing major).

@ Everyone: does anyone else want to test the bug explained in soooo many posts above? Anyone?... Dang it! I need more people to confirm that the bug is either fixed or not! I can't do it myself since it doesn't happen to me anymore! Can't confirm = can't fix anything = can't work further in this area since I'm not sure what I have to look out for/whether there is still something to be looked out for. I *really* want to settle this before R2 is released, since ToEEWB is becoming more and more stable, and if I settled this major thing I could've moved to either release candidates or releases after just a few minor builds.

- Agetian

 

Re: ToEE World Builder Public Beta 2

Just released the Public Beta 2 (R2). It seems that it's no good waiting for volunteers to test the sector-embed crash issue, so... no one cares and I won't either, at least for now.

The biggest thing in this version is a new feature, called the Tile Editor. With this tool, editing 2D area graphics makes much more sense since you can easily draw a new house on the map and make it impassable so the player can't walk through it (just find out the coordinates for the top left and bottom right corners of your house, insert them into the "Update a box of tiles" boxes and update.).

A note to everyone who is going to use the tile editor: Don't forget to SAVE! Just updating the tiles doesn't automatically save your sector! The sector file is saved to disk ONLY when you press "Save"!!!

An important note about further updates to ToEEWB: I'm on the verge of finalizing the mode that will allow you guys to build new modules, meaning that you'll be able to actually create an all-new adventure that will show up as a separate module in the ToEE Frontend! This, however, will need certain updates to both ToEEWB and ToEE Frontend, so stay tuned! Next version is going to include this feature and an all-new tutorial on how to make a new module!
Don't expect this update very soon, though, since it's a heck of a lot of work.

Anyway, here's what's new in R2:

Beta R2 - Jul 12 2005
---------------------------

- added the "tile editor" mode to the sector editor. It allows a modder to modify footstep sounds for different coordinates, and also create blocked (impassable) areas that either obstruct or don't obstruct player's vision.
- various minor modifications, mainly to remove internal code inconsistencies.
- updated ToEE Frontend included with this version of the ToEEWB to version 2.2 (read about the updates in the corresponding thread)
- now ToEEWB comes with all the tutorials that were released.

Hope you enjoy the tool!
- Agetian

 

Re: ToEE World Builder Public Beta 2

Another important note for Tile Editor users: while updating a lot of tiles together (using "Update a box of tiles"), remember that the coordinates you may be using may go outside the boundaries of the currently edited sector, and you may want to edit several sector files to cover your object. For example, you have a huge house that stretches from (100, 100) to (200,200). You want to make it solid.

1) Open a sector that includes the (100,100) coordinate OR create a new sector from object coordinates (100,100) if this sector doesn't yet exist in the map.

2) Set the passability options you want (to "impassable") and update a box of tiles from (100, 100) to (200, 200). YOU WILL NOTICE THAT THE ONLY COORDINATES THAT WERE UPDATED WERE (100, 100) THROUGH (127,127).

3) Open a sector that includes the (128,128) coordinate OR create a new sector from object coords (128,128) if this sector doesn't yet exist in the map.

4) Repeat step 2. You will notice that you covered the coords (128,128) through (191,191).

5) Repeat steps 3 and 4 for a sector that covers the rest of the coordinates.

HINT: You can use the schematic views as a reference to what coordinates you can cover while updating each of the sectors.

Hope this helps.
- Agetian

 

Re: ToEE World Builder Public Beta 2

Well I for one appreciate how incredible this is - great work Agetian (and Dulcaion!)

New modules... aye, there's the rub. But there's one last obstacle...

CLIPPING. Can we do it? I don't think we need total clipping, just the hazy variety you suggested is in the .svb files (I HATE losing sight of my characters, especially considering how many fights take place in doorways when u first open doors etc).

Can we do it? Its the last hurdle as far as I can see.

[Immediate edit: I have carried on trying to trace the problems with the big map door thing. I noticed when inserting Cujo's new giant PC into the PC folder that one character - a rogue I have used in basically all my parties - has multiple saves, one of which seems to have .mob GUI's in the save-name. Now, some of the saved parties I used without her in them still screwed up with your door, so its not that easy, but I suspect it is relevant.]

 

Re: ToEE World Builder Public Beta 2

I'm working on SVB files while I have some time, shouldn't be too hard to get them right. Could just as well make it to the next build of ToEEWB if I'm lucky.

About the big door problem: it's really weird you're still getting the crash. I can ascertain that at least two PCs (mine and my friend's) don't have this problem anymore. We need more people. That's something we don't have atm... and that's too bad. Unfortunately, I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about when you talk about the saved games... could you please send me some of the saved games that crash by e-mail?

- Agetian

 

Re: ToEE World Builder Public Beta 2

Can do.

Will do too.

 

Re: ToEE World Builder Public Beta 2

Agetian - Thank you for your outstanding work with this program! about a month ago I was trying to get the hang of this whole spawning thing, but my short attention span, long complicated instructions, and time (or the lack of the 'free time') proved to be my downfall. This tool has simplified the whole process so much EVEN I CAN DO IT and quickly too!

Thanks.

 

Re: ToEE World Builder Public Beta 2

@ Shiningted: Well, the saves you sent me explained most of the things to me. I tried working with two saves: "LN" and "Fiddle". The first one crashed, and the second one didn't. Tell me if I'm wrong, but "Fiddle" should have been made only with the newer file, and "LN" could have experienced (at least indirectly) the influence of both erroneous and "correct" SEC files, right? If I'm not right, then it's *THE* biggest mystery (in its direct sense), since it's unexplainable. Read on why.

(First of all, I'd like to mention that all of the information below is not my observation only, but it's confirmed with specific tools).

The game, while making saved games, tries to "cache" the changed stuff in both mobile objects and sectors, saving some of the information about what has changed during the gameplay. It creates a bunch of files packed into the archive with the "tfai/tfaf" extensions. These files have the same name as the modified sector but they have the ".dif" extension (and also a plenty of other files related to sectors).

This information is used later when the game loads in order to restore the correct memory map of all the objects in the current game, both the original ones and the changed ones. The thing I'm thinking about right now is that the "LN" saved game got the difference file from an incorrect save, or from an older sector file, most certainly corrupting it in such a way that the object can't be restored (the incorrect GUID type causes a memory leak which causes the game to crash). If you remove the sector file (even the correct one), there is no point to restore that diff-object anymore since the object is no more (this is also due to the fact that sector-embedded objects don't go to the map cache, so the list of sector objects is modified every time the game is loaded). Apparently, the absence of the object makes the saved game crash no more, while the appearance of any object with the same GUID or at least with the same GUID prefix (no matter if it's correctly saved or not) makes the game crash since it tries to put the object in the mobile objects memory map (type 0x02 guid) and NOT the sector objects memory map (type 0x00 guid).

The "Fiddle" saved game DOESN'T have the diff file for the sector where our door is stored (most certainly because you haven't gone there yet, or nothing has changed there). Therefore, whenever you first enter the sector with our door, the game caches it in from the sector file and uses. So, if it's saved correctly (with a type 0x00 guid), it shouldn't provide a problem, and it doesn't btw. I tried walking in that sector, exiting it (to make sure it's cached as a diff file) and making a saved game. This produced a diff file for our sector. I tried loading the game, and it didn't crash anymore either, probably because the memory map can be correctly restored (since the guid type is now 0x00).

So all of the above *explains* it, but there are certain things that I don't yet understand or can't yet explain:

- If the "LN" saved game never ever used the older (incorrect) sector file(s), I can't explain why it crashes while using the newer sector file.
- If the "Fiddle" saved game ever used the older (incorrect) sector file(s) and used to crash, but stopped crashing when switched to the newer sector file, I can't explain why it doesn't crash anymore (even once re-saved with the sector diff file), AND I can't explain why it doesn't have a diff file for the sector with our door.

So, as I said, it's a mystery. The things I'm sure about are:

- The game doesn't crash for me once started from a new game OR from a saved game that NEVER EVER used the older (incorrect) saved game. I confirmed it by hundreds of tests.
- The game doesn't crash from your saved games if those saved games don't contain a diff reference to the sector.
- The game doesn't crash from your saved games if those saved games have a diff reference but were made with the latest (updated) sector file.
- The game crashes from your saved games if they contain a diff reference to the sector file of unknown origin (I'm not sure about its source and I can't decipher it since diff format used in ToEE is much more complicated than regular MOB/SEC thing).

I also can't explain the following:

- The presence of that strange ToEEPC file in your "players" folder that has an apparent object file GUID reference in it. Whenever it's present in the "players" folder, the "New game" screen (with the player selection) seems to act a bit slower (jerky) than without that file. It's possibly a bug in the game engine (?).

So, I'm open to all comments about those saved games: what did you do in LN and Fiddle, when did you make either of these saves, could any of them have had any (even indirect) influence of the older sector files, does the game crash for you if you start a new game, does it crash if you start a new game, make a saved and load it back, etc. etc. I have thousands of questions here. Everything depends on your feedback now.
Thanks in advance.

- Agetian

 

Re: ToEE World Builder Public Beta 2

I got nothing to say. :X

 

Re: ToEE World Builder Public Beta 2

Nah kidding The only relevant piece of feedback I can give is, I didn't save ANY of them subsequent to your .sec files. I don't know if they are dated but they are all a few weeks back, so unless the game writes to saves in real-time or something there is no reason any diffent .secs should have affected those saves.

I still think it is something in Liv's mod - does one of her 'barrels' or whatever they are in ummm py00801 (for memory) occur in this sector? (Not bagging Liv, just pointing at the most obvious thing).

Sorry I can't give you more feedback than that, it is a mystery to me. "Fiddle" of course takes place in Jinnerth's house, which has been my own little .mob laboratory. That it should be the only one that works is bizarre.

It strikes me that if these are used to say spawn doors on some new large map in the future, since they don't screw up on games from scratch, it probably won't be a big deal. As long as people are aware of the problem, I'd say keep it simmering at the back of your mind and don't waste too much time on it, there is so much else to do and so few else who can do it For the moment I will use the scripted door (with correct coords ) and life can go on.

Thanks again for all the effort. Ask me any follow-ups that come to mind.

 

Re: ToEE World Builder Public Beta 2

@ Shiningted: Yeah, I can't explain it either. We don't know how the game cache works exactly, so I can't tell you whether something is cached into saves without your knowledge...

Anyway, I think that you could help me more after you're done with your mod, since you'll be able to reinstall.

Take care! Thanks for help!
- Agetian

 

Re: ToEE World Builder Public Beta 2

@Shiningted: !!!IMPORTANT!!! Removing the diff file from the "LN" saved game makes the game stop crashing don't try it at home! Therefore, it's the saved game and not the sector file. Maybe something was cached in back in the days when you used the older sec files (the erroneous ones)...
Lemme know what you think about it

- Agetian

 

Re: ToEE World Builder Public Beta 2

Important note about SVB files: I tried very hard to add support for SVB files into ToEEWB, but they seem more complicated than I thought. They seem to be linked both with the wall flags set in the SEC files AND with the clipping files, so it may be a (long) while until they get properly supported in the editor.

A note for modders: Anyway, I don't really think that clipping poses a big problem for modders. "Half-clipping" provided by SVB files add extra shadowing (in addition to shadows set in SEC files??) and they "gray out" the selection circle around the player model. Really, if you remove all the clipping and svb stuff (I tried doing that), there is not that *big* of a difference (no huge gap between the un-clipped and clipped versions). So, for now it's very much possible to omit the clipping stuff.

I really hope to add the support for SVB and/or clipping files later, when I have more time. Now - on to polishing ToEE Frontend and writing the module building tutorial

- Agetian

 

Re: ToEE World Builder Public Beta 2

Got all that, gimme a couple days to digest it