Things to do, places to go, people to see....

This is a truly tragic example of this problem, because not only do those guys have good dialogue, they're also custom voiced, and they're two of the very best custom voice sets we have, imo. If they're always KOS no one will ever hear them. Maybe we should eliminate the whole KOS condition altogether.

No cloaks, and he attacks from either the secret stairs or via the main stairway/zombies route. I don't know if he's designed to KOS if you're not wearing the cloaks, but this still seems like a waste to me. It amounts to 'all fight no story.' I think more and more that all these guys should talk to you at least initially, even if the unavoidable outcome is a battle. At least that way you'd have some idea why they're there and the resources wouldn't go to waste.

 

@krunch - Not sure if you've already done this, but you may want to try Ag's pathnoding tool on the HB outdoor map. I still had some pathing issues there last night. (Nothing major, but I understand that Ag's tool is well-suited to large outdoor maps.)

 

Observed more zanyness in the Feldrin/Brunk/greater temple troops battle on Temple Level 2: battle begins when everyone is approached via the main corridor (after the lookout runs off to warn everybody); Feldrin and Brunk and the gang come out to fight; Feldrin surrenders when he gets beat down enough, but then he starts in about where Brunk is and how he's supposed to be helping, even though he's standing right there; you humiliate Feldrin to whatever extent you want, then tell him to get lost and take his troops with him, and he agrees; then combat restarts, but Feldrin disappears, and Brunk and the rest of the gang finish it out.

This is weird because the troops should go with Feldrin. Unless they're mutinying or something, but if they are there's no explanation for it. Also Brunk being there when Feldrin says he's not is goofy.

I may have a look at this myself but I have a feeling it's pretty complicated.


Also -

If you choose to fight Kelleen the troll (who handles the owlbear) when you first meet her, you can then proceed to Oohlgrist's area, where the two regular trolls in attendance will go hostile. Oohlgrist will not, however, and will stand by as you kill his peoples. Then you can talk to him and have him start in as normal with his dialogue ("How dare you interrupt big chief" etc.). I assume the same is probably true for Aern the troll (with the hydra).

Oohlgrist should clearly join in the fight if there is one, but ideally you shouldn't get a KOS reaction at all when he's around so that his dialogue can fire in a non-contradictory way.

I've looked at this a bit and it too seems fairly complicated.

 

Not sure if you're saying that those trolls are literally from different factions in-game, but if they are they shouldn't be. The two who stand around Oohlgrist are (I assume) his subjects, and there is dialogue that states that Aern and Kelleen are also friends to him, as well as subserviant. This should mean all trolls in that area = same faction.

I don't believe that Oohlgrist would intevene in an attack on his subjects because he had some sympathy for them, but rather that their demise, and indeed their being subject to an attack in his very presence, would be an affront to his authority. An affront to his authority would jeopardize his continued domination of the trolls and their situation, which he would not want to happen. Indeed, if he is in fact 'big chief' through a system of intimidation et al over a period of time, he would be foolish to let his investment so easily disappear before his eyes.

At any rate, it looks foolish for him to stand there while they're killed and then start in normally with his dialogue as if he isn't aware of what happened.

 

Okay, I think I've got it straight: Aern is a fire temple troll; Kelleen is a water temple troll; Oohlgrist and his two buddies are neutral (until/if you turn him); but everybody knows everybody.

So the solution should be simply that Oohlgrist's two buddies don't go hostile on sight. They shouldn't be particularly offended if Aern or Kelleen are killed (no more than Oohlgrist seems to be, anyway), and they should only go hostile if their buddy Oohlgrist is attacked.

 

A few more things:

• Scorpp, when fought in his 'pleasure dome,' calls off the fight midway, offers up some info, then tells you to get lost. You agree, then go back into combat anyway without explanation.
• It doesn't seem like the big green snakes that dwell in Belsornig's temple should attack you if you're on speaking terms with him, but they do. Then, when you leave the temple after you kill them, Belsornig wants to fight. Again without explanation.
• If you don't accept Kelno's quest offers but don't kill him, he at least warns that he can't guarantee your safety in the air temple. If you then run into his guards they will indeed attack you (which seems odd since you were just talking to their boss). Then, if you go back to Kelno, he attacks on sight. So we have a situation where Kelno's guards will act of their own initiative and not take their cues from Kelno, but Kelno will 'back them up,' so to speak, if you've fought with them. And once more without explanation.
  (I'm aware that this 'without explanation' phenomenon is a result of the KOS flags, but there's got to be a better way. What little story there is just gets shredded when this stuff keeps happening.)

In those rooms adjacent to Scorpp's, we have:

• 2 bugbear 'leaders' that have to be the absolute baddest creatures in the temple. I've said this before, but bugbears like that should be doing their own adventuring, not guarding doors. I'll guard the doors; let them go run off and kick ass across the land. They even make Scorpp look like a punk, tbh.
• another gang of bugbears with what looks like an everage of 130+ hit points each and 27+ AC. Where do these guys come from? Put them together with the two leaders and they'd be an unstoppable fighting force. If all these elite badass bugbears are going to just be hanging around there, there should at least be some explanation for it.
• 3 ogres and 1 ogre shaman that have, by contrast, 30 hit points or so and go down easily. Ogres with 100 fewer HP than bugbears ... :yeaaa: