Stunning Revelations from Orion

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by Gaear, Jan 27, 2006.

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  1. Morpheus

    Morpheus Mindflayer Veteran

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    I have no objection to his stuff being available for download again, as long as he shows some respect for the work of other modders (and doesn't just pay lip service somewhere in the small print).

    Orion should clearly state, at the BEGINNING of his readme, that his mod is largely based on Co8 Mod Pack 3.04, and that it contains additions & fixes from Livonya's 1.51 Mod, moebius2778's temple.dll, Allyx' new items, Cujo's new armor/clothes, ShiningTed's stuff, Cerulean the Blue's Random Encounter maps, darmagon's new spells, etc. I want a detailed list, not just a passing mention.

    Furthermore, he should stop deriding the Co8 stuff as "childish", since it is obiously just ShiningTed's Desperate Housewives mod that he has issues with - which is an OPTIONAL install, for fuck's sake.

    The part where he claims that Co8's Disintegrate spell doesn't work (twice in a row) - that's simply not true and disrespectful to darmagon. Orion might want to think about deleting that passage.

    Lastly, he should do some spring cleaning and remove all superfluous files from his mod. There's a whole bunch of unnecessary .dll files, and even a toee-console.exe (whatever that is), in his zip, which makes the whole download 4 MB larger than it needs to be. (FYI, there are even files from Ted's DH mod! What's up with that?)
     
    Morpheus, Jan 28, 2006
    #16
  2. Agetian

    Agetian Attorney General Administrator

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    Good point Morpheus! Makes perfect sense!
    I notified Tal about it.

    - Agetian
     
    Agetian, Jan 28, 2006
    #17
  3. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    The terms Morpheus stated sound reasonable to me. I don't think anybody wants to put the guy out of business for spite's sake, but I don't like the idea of getting shit on while he rides on Co8's back. Make him jump through the hoops that Morph laid out - that should give him the red ass enough, in addition to being 'meet, right, and salutary.'

    Hell, he may still hang himself if he gets Orion-nutty with Taluntain. ("Do not dare to scorn me . . .!")


    PS - Hey Agetian, remind me never to cross you in cyberspace. Talk about swift justice. ;)

    PPS - You people have all stepped up rather impressively in this matter. Not a one wasted post, here or at Atari. (Okay, maybe Ted's crack about the Ghost Ranger of Rainbow Rock was a little over the top . . .) :biggergri :thumbsup:
     
    Gaear, Jan 28, 2006
    #18
  4. Taluntain

    Taluntain Established Member Administrator

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    I've had a mail exchange with Orion about this, and he's agreed to everything that's been discussed here. There's just this:

    "The only favor that I may ask to you is if they could pass me a complete list of the persons that they want me to name in the readme, because I really don't remember all of them!"

    Yes, I know, it's pretty sad that others have to put this together for him, but for the sake of putting this matter at rest, please do me a favour and do it, since you seem to know already what he has included that isn't his own.
     
    Taluntain, Jan 28, 2006
    #19
  5. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    We're cleaning up his mess again... c'est la vie.

    Is it still up to download? I'll have to get and see if he included any of my voice stuff etc (or Ah Fong / Something About Mary for that matter), and let the clown know what DH stuff he's left in. O well... the irony is now we are gonna need links for his stuff to check it!

    Nice to know there are a thousand people still out there worrying about ToEE, some days I wonder ;)
    Now you don't seriously expect any less of me, do u? :transform
     
    Shiningted, Jan 28, 2006
    #20
  6. Taluntain

    Taluntain Established Member Administrator

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    I can put it back on if no one else can send you a copy.
     
    Taluntain, Jan 29, 2006
    #21
  7. Cerulean the Blue

    Cerulean the Blue Blue Meanie Veteran

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    I have put up all the documentation from Co8 4.0.0 back up on the FTP. It is the fruit of all my research into who did what for Co8. You can find it here:

    http://files.co8.org/others/Co8-4.0.0_Documentation.zip

    But you know, I think this is bull***t. 0rion violated the agreement. 0rion should fix it, not have us do the legwork for him. Send him the documentation, let him figure out what he used and what he didn't (which is pretty much everything except DH), and he damn well better give me the credit for all the research.

    I don't want to shut him down completely. In fact, if he manages to tone down his ego, I would love to have him back at Co8. If he manages to remove all the derogatory references to Co8, I would like to see his mod posted here as well.
     
    Cerulean the Blue, Jan 29, 2006
    #22
  8. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    I think I'll need it back up thanks Tal.

    EDIT: Never mind, see below. Thanks C-Blue.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2006
    Shiningted, Jan 29, 2006
    #23
  9. darmagon

    darmagon stumbler in the dark

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    Tried a couple times to post here yesterday but got some weird errors (probably to do with my own cache and private data housecleaning here.)

    There is really only one thing that irks me about Orion's stuff and no it is not his claim that disintegrate doesn't work. If he tested it against undead then he is correct, it doesn't work as it should. At least as far as I can remember (will have to check. That was a long time ago:)). IIRC this was explained in the readme for that spell release. It is something that should be fixed , and will be eventually.

    No, what really irks me is this:


    Quote:
    - Disintegrate is not a ray. Probably I'm just not good enough but the one offered by Co8 does nothing and the game seems to make null every spell that includes a ranged touch attack together with a saving throw.


    From the SRD:
    According to this Disintegrate is a Ray. But that isn't what really irks me, What makes me the most irkish is Orion making a big deal about making it a ranged touch attack. Again, from the SRD:
    Now this is what really gets me. Here he is, going on high and mighty about how he is only interested in making the game conform to the 3.5 rules and, quite obviously, he doesn't know and hasn't bothered to check what the rules actually are! Disintegrate is a ray and a ray is a ranged touch attack. So he has raised a complete non-issue along with, probably, some confusion, as well as, in my mind making himself look foolish.

    But then, I guess that is the danger in being elitist, you have to make sure you do your homework meticulously at every step because you have set such a high public standard for yourself. If I fuck up, well I fucked up again sue me... If Agetian fucks up (has he ever fucked up?) Well he has never made a big issue of his infallibility and it is not a big deal. If Orion does the same, though, his credibility is ruined (as happened here) because he set the bar so high for himself.

    Didn't mean to start preaching but I might as well continue on to the moral since I have gone this far....Think twice before getting on a high horse. It is a lot more work staying in the saddle and you have such a long way to fall when you finally do fall (as all riders do from time to time.)

    Now some of you may say that I have ridden a high horse at times, and you may be correct. But I usually had the sense to dismount before the thin air up there affected me too much. If that is not the case, well, then, I fucked up, so sue me....:)

    Darmagon
     
    darmagon, Jan 29, 2006
    #24
  10. Cerulean the Blue

    Cerulean the Blue Blue Meanie Veteran

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    I put it up on the FTP, in the "Others" section. I'm not going to link to it because of the issues involved. If you don't have FTP access and need to look at it, PM me and I will PM you back with the link.

    Thanks Tal, but I don't think we need it back up now.
     
    Cerulean the Blue, Jan 29, 2006
    #25
  11. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Last time I checked Orion wasn't banned. What's to keep him from coming here and asking for these favors himself?

    At any rate, maybe he should simply be made to include the Co8 3.0.4 readme in his release, as well as every readme from every mod after 3.0.4 from every modder who cares to check to see if his work is in Orion's mod.

    If we sound crabby Tal don't take it personally. I for one understand and sympathize with the refereeing job you have to do here. But we take a lot of pride in this community, and being prostituted by this guy like we have is kind of tough to take. :shrug:
     
    Gaear, Jan 29, 2006
    #26
  12. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    Ok... my stuff that is included:

    The whole of Playful NPCs - not sure what release (probably the original one) but it all seems to be in there, complete with Elmo and Otis' dialogue for DH. I read all the readme's and did a search for the word 'playful', there's nothing credited and where my name does occur its a vague, "Shiningted, Cujo and Allyx for some of the additions". Furthermore, there seems to be no sound folder, and the 10mb size of the file is explained by over 8mb in the art folder (Cujo's meshes etc). So the whole point of Playful NPCs, to include new voice files, is heavily buggered up.

    If Cujo doesn't mind, I will add that his stuff is in there too (armour, shields, hair, helms, weapons, tattoos, clothes etc). 0rion does seem to have yanked the .45, give him credit for that.

    HE'S F*CKING STOLEN AH FONG... ok, thats just shitty: he's used the same protos entry and dlg files - still called 00280AhFong.dlg, no less - but has renamed the character 'Kurosawa' and he's fiddled the dialogue. See thats just plagiarism... what I wouldn't give for Mifune and that enormous katana he had in Seven Samurai right about now, I'd give him 'Kurosawa'! He seems to have moved him from the house in Nulb too (no mobs there anyway). BUT the mobs for a lot of DH are in there. Later on I might run this mess, console-activate them and put up shots of them all in there. (Ok, that would be petty :p ) Frank is most definitely gone though, mores the pity. No surprise though.

    HE'S STOLEN GWENNO... the sod. I don't know WHAT he has done to her, but she still hands out a crossbow for some reason and mutters about her missing husband. I mean, ffs why not leave her out if he hates DH? O thats right, because he really can't create his own stuff, just mangle other peoples'.

    The mobs and Mary's script for Something about Mary are in there too, though not her dlg stuff for DH. Ok, he got that right.

    Ok, in summary:

    I want full credit for Playful NPCs even if he has buggered it.

    I want full credit for Something about Mary.

    I want an acknowledgment of what he has done to Ah Fong (I won't ask he remove Ah Fong, because he was added to allow people easy access to Cujo and Heavy Dan's new gear and I wouldn't deprive the poor folks who actually use this mod of their fine stuff, that defeats the whole purpose).

    I want the Gwenno character removed: I don't care how she has been renamed or fiddled or changed, I want her taken down.

    I want the following claim "- fixed some dialogue in the herbmonger's dialogue about the celtic rune" either substantiated or removed, because as far as I can tell (from looking and testing) that worked perfectly, while 0rion's change is simply nonsensical: he has changed the line:
    to the ridiculous
    Ie he has garbled a male and female dialogue together with no connection, for no reason.

    EDIT: O this is for a list of demands I think Co8 should issue to 0rion, not demands to Tal to change before reposting or anything. I agree with what Gaear said on Tal being stuck in the middle here.

    2nd EDIT: Looking through his protos.tab, he seems to have added a 'Drow Archer' that presumably is in the Hedrack fight.

    Its another Ranger. I'm not joking. :paranoid:
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2006
    Shiningted, Jan 29, 2006
    #27
  13. Lord_Spike

    Lord_Spike Senior Member Veteran

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    This guy is nothing more than a bad fake; he plagarises the work done by honest folk who come her to help improve the game. Why in the world are people putting up with this? He should be banned from all the forums where his offenses occur, and these should be laid bare for the ToEE gaming world to see. Any version of the plagarised material should be removed as well. He brought it on himself...and time is being taken away from more serious efforts.

    He is a liar, and a cheat; these things are fact proven by his deeds, not the opinion of one person. It's time to stop being nice to him, and wasting energy on fixing things he should not have done in the first fucking place. He started this crap; he never had to leave, just work well with others...well, he couldn't bring himself to do that, and left of his own volition. Now this bullshit starts, and here we are, turning yet another cheek. He's hit us twice, and I for one am out of cheeks...expose another one to him if you choose, but I feel certain that he'll try to smack that one as well. His kind always does. He'll just have to aim lower.

    To hell with Orion 79.
     
    Lord_Spike, Jan 29, 2006
    #28
  14. Moosehead

    Moosehead Rubber nipple

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    well, what he's done IS acually a breach of copyright and intellectual property theft, and therefore technicallyillegal. he could be fined for it rather heftily if it had happened where i live.

    sued too.

    you'd think a grown man would be more aware of the law.
     
    Moosehead, Jan 30, 2006
    #29
  15. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

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    As I said to Ted once - my art is free to use in any Co8 mod - but if I see it anywhere else then I wont be very happy.

    because his mod isn't a Co8 one and he didn't ask me if he could use it, he can take it all my stuff out.
     
    Cujo, Jan 31, 2006
    #30
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