[SPOILERS!] Scather, Fragarach, Bugs, and Damage Comparisons

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Endarire, Feb 19, 2016.

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  1. Endarire

    Endarire Ronald Rynnwrathi

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    Intro
    Greetings, all!

    Alignments and Free Attacks of Opportunity
    With the seemingly infinite attacks of opportunity available to a CG Fragarach/Scather wielder, what alignments are 'safe' to use with these weapons? (I'd prefer to use a main character party of Good characters.)

    Handedness
    Should I dual wield the swords? Wield each sword on a different character? Two-hand the swords for extra damage, especially from Power Attack? (This assumpes the PnP rule where double-handing a weapon while Power Attacking does more Power Attack damage than single-handing.)

    Damage and Advantage Comparisons
    I'm seriously interested in how Scather and Fragrach (+4 Holy Chaotic), the Swords That Always Hit Except Against Blur And Displacement And Mirror Image, fare damage-wise against a Glaive and a Longspear. Assume the non-artifact weapons are well-crafted and have these properties:

    +1 Holy Lawful Keen Shocking Burst Icy Burst

    Artifact Sword Advantages
    +I get to honestly say I'm wielding artifact swords!

    +Always hitting means always Power Attacking. At minimum, I'm doing +1 damage per BAB from Power Attack.

    +Always hitting means iterative attacks work. Four or five swings (with haste) means 4 or 5 hits, plus (Great) Cleave.

    +Always hitting means always hitting with Cleave and Great Cleave attacks. Prince Thrommel last-hit Zuggtmoy and destroyed all the remaining minions via Great Cleave. My friend playing with me was jealous.

    Crafted Polearm Advantages
    +Consistently better damage. Frag hit for about 30 damage max from a fully Power Attacking, double-handing Thrommel @Fighter10. My crafted polearm team was doing a minimum of 37 damage against Evil foes via double-handing.

    +Crits are super lethal. Ever see a well-crafted polearm deal 97 damage on a crit to a foe - from a buffed Wizard and without Power Attacking?

    +Inherently better reach in ToEE. In ToEE, reach + Combat Reflexes = win.
     
  2. Gehennis

    Gehennis Established Member

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    In my limited experience of using Scather/Fragarach I got the impression that it gave it's user unlimited AOO. However, it turned out that you got limited attacks of retaliation- you only got the attack when you took damage so of course, you can only do that so long as you have enough HP to stay on your feet. And I was using a CG character (a ranger BTW) so unless there was just something that I was doing wrong neither of these swords offer unlimited attacks of opportunity; rather, just an ability to just retaliate when hit and taking damage. All in all, I was thoroughly underwhelmed by the sword/s....
     
  3. chano

    chano Established Member

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    Neutral good is prefered by me, no aoo but i get a´ll the other stuff and can you it against fire creatures.
    I have tried dual wielding scather-frag and it is pretty good, especially with a rogue/fighter.
    It seem that i do not get the full powerattack when wielding in 1 hand, but i do get some extra damage
     
  4. Endarire

    Endarire Ronald Rynnwrathi

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    Based on testing in NC 8.1.0, there are 2 main options:

    -Don't take Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword), but take Power Attack This lets you use Power Attack for full every time. It requires less feat-wise than the second option.

    -Take Exotic Weapon Proficency (Bastard Sword) and take Two-Weapon Fighting. If you wield one (Frag or Scather), you may as well wield both. This path requires more feats to fully use the weapons (TWF, Improved TWF, Greater TWF, and likely Power Attack, Cleave, and Great Cleave).

    Thus, anyone not specifically trying to go TWF should save a feat and avoid proficiency. Fighters (due to bonus feats), Rogues (due to Sneak Attack), and Rangers (due to getting the TWF line as bonus feats) should consider being CG and taking the feats to fully apprecaite dual wielding and "Frager" (Frag and Scather).
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2016
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