So what do you do in rl?

This reminds me of a line from my 2nd favorite novel - from its "missing" 21st chapter:

Yes yes yes, there it was. Youth must go, ah yes. But youth is only being in a way like it might be an animal. No, it is not just like being an animal so much as being like one of these malenky toys you viddy being sold in the streets, like little chellovecks made out of tin and with a spring inside and then a winding handle on the outside and you wind it up grrr grrr grrr and off it itties, like walking, O my brothers. But it itties in a straight line and bangs straight into things bang bang and it cannot help what it is doing. Being young is like being like one of those malenky machines.

My son, my son. When I had my son I would explain all that to him when he was starry enough to like understand. But then I knew he would not understand or would not want to understand at all and would do all the veshches I had done....

It was literature that changed my outlook on life. It affected me in a profound way to finally realize the messages that great artists were trying to unselfishly pass on to future generations. It always puts a grin on my face when words from decades, centuries, or even millenia ago can so exquisitely express the reality that I face.

Ah, but my reality is quite different. I left New York before I had turned 18 for Montreal and that awakened me to a much larger world. Love of a Canadian girl brought me to Taiwan (since we couldn't find work in 91 under a different bush...). Then I got the "Yellow Fever". There is nothing quite so scary as being dependent on an unfaithful woman when you are basically a refugee. I consider myself a refugee because a lot of who I am is still frozen in 1987 - hence my love for D&D, progressive rock, and Nick at Nite. Sure I visit my family, which is scattered all over that country, but I feel like a foreigner there. Life in Taiwan is what I understand after 17 years of being here. It has not been a stable life but at least I never had to work very hard.

As you may have guessed, I teach English here - currently running my own one-man show travelling around the island doing a more grandiose concept of "Communication Consulting". The most beneficial accident of my life was to have a university literature class get dumped on me, and it led me on a journey of self-discovery through existentialism, Jungian psychology (kudos to those of you who mentioned art therapy), and conflict management.

I only get to enjoy the company of other western people 1 day/week for PnP (and I freak out when they cancel it). I do have a Taiwanese wife, but she does not have any interest in my world. I am impressed by the stories of those of you who found meaning through children, but I cannot bear to take that step "forward". I have become embittered at the modern world preferring the serenity of my YouTube 80s music videos and D&D. The burden of raising a child is too much for my chaotic nature to fathom. I have no faith in a parent's ability to compete with outside influences. The uselessness of the parents that I see here has led me to despise the young. Besides, for all the wisdom I would want to impart from the good old days would undoubtedly not be well received. I could imagine overhearing, "my dad is such a loser"

My final existential action shall be to flip the bird to the world on my deathbed claiming that no seed of mine shall feed the infernal machine. And no one will be there to witness it!

 

Basil i hate to think that you wouldn't want to have a child because your afraid you can't compete with the outside worlds influences. I don't have children yet, i'm only 25 but it was not that long ago that i was young enough to rely on my parents for the guidence i needed.

My parents cared enough to be involved with what i did, they gave me space and let me make my own decisions but they were always (and still are) there to give advice and let me make the right (and often wrong) decisions. I think the fact that you care enough to worry about whether you can impart your knowledge shows that you have good chance of raising a happy, well adjusted child.

On the topic of literature i do agree that it's influence can be profound and hopefully positvly so. I'll never forget sitting in my junior english class next to the women that would later become my fiance (we were just friends then) and going over a quote that changed my outlook profoundly. "The mark of an imature man is his want to die nobely for a cause, where as the mark of a mature man is his willingness to live humbely for one." I always wanted to join the military, become a cop (would have happened if not for a shoulder injury that reared it's head less than a month before entering the academy) or fireman to save others, die in a blaze of glroy if you will. Now i see the folly of that line of thinking and am happy to live humbely for my one.

just my 2cp

 

DF, I was in the service for 6 years and came close to "dying gloriously for a cause". I am now "disabled". I can't quite remember what this "cause" was though. But my job wasn't to die, but to live. And to do boring things remarkably like what civilians do. The purpose of the military, police, firemen, etc is primarily to make it possible for boring people to do boring things (boring=IMPORTANT). That's why it is called public SERVICE. Otherwise, the never-ending supply of scumbags and general bad fortune will screw up everything that is important. You haven't missed something important, you are doing it NOW.

Basil, I have a 17 year old son. I didn't have him out of some sort of duty. He was an accident (I think). I was terribly afraid he would hurt me, and worse, I would hurt him. My parents, from whom I learned parenting, were so deeply flawed. I felt I was damaged goods (especially after I was "damaged"). So I made NO effort to mold him in my own image. And, he has grown up to be gently, but stubbornly, his own self. My grandfather used to laugh and call my son "bull-headed", just like he would call me.

My son has turned out all right, to my vast relief. But, shockingly, he is ME. Everyone says so. So, I must be okay, too. And my parents not so bad after all.

Basil, if you have kids, by whatever method, you won't mess them up as long as you let your love of them (and yourself) guide you. If you don't want them, don't have them. Best of all, though, having kids doesn't fulfill some duty to the universe, it tells the glorious, wonderful universe to FUCK THE HELL OFF. The vast, implacable destroyer has thus been thwarted again.

 

I have no faith in a parent's ability to compete with outside influences. The uselessness of the parents that I see here has led me to despise the young. Besides, for all the wisdom I would want to impart from the good old days would undoubtedly not be well received. I could imagine overhearing, "my dad is such a loser"


Basil,

In reference to your above statement and in conjuntion with GA82's comments, DO NOT faith in being a good parent. NONE OF US are prepared for this. I know I certaintly wasn't and was worried for my son's future in this world as well.

My son was only 2 1/2 months old when 9/11 happened. You can onl;y imagine the thought that ran through my mind! Any wisdom you can impart on a child that makes them a better, more tolerant, and open minded individual, will always be well received. You've seen the uselessness of the parents where you live, endeavor not to be that way. The goal of any new parent is to do a better job parenting that their own parents did with them.

An jeez, don't worry about any future kids stating "my dad is such a loser". All kids make these comments about their parents, at some time or another, regardless of how well they were brought up. That statement and others like it are just signs of that child establishing their own autonomy. (in most cases, )

It seems you have quite a wealth of knowledge and experinece at you disposal here to assist you in any parenting problems you may face if you decide to go down that parenting road. Remember, there are no "console codes" or re-loading of saved games" in parenting. You try your damndest every day and learn by trial and error, just like RL.

 

my father made really big mistakes raising me which only ended up fucking up my life. but at times i called to god and thanked for having a dad and i think even 1 prayer like this is all worth the shit. and repeating my fathers mistake to keep fucking my own life was my choice in the long run.

outside influance.. how do you protect your own self from outside influance? you cant. nobody can. your son is a soul not your meat product. he will be born on earth if you like it or not. and the best thing you can do to protect him from outside is to raise him accordingly. maybe his soul will be born in a less caring family? maybe more? or are you just escaping from the duty?


what is life anyway? is it so precious that you will only have a kid if only he can be raised as pure as angels? whos kids are born like that? what makes *your* kid special? arent you acting a bit selfish? isnt the chance of raising a very good person worth all the risk?

its a circle. fathers make good sons who make good grandsons and all. and all these good people make the world a better place. if you want to be a rebel and break the cirlce go on.

everything is two sided. when world violates an innocent kid, the kid corrects the world that much in return. its a bit difficult to understand but this is how i view things.

 

Let's just say I'm a VERY conservative risk taker. I believe I have chosen the Red pill and I believe (because I have seen it) that 99% of others, when given the choice of the red or the blue pill, will choose the Blue one.

However, unlike the later crap that the Wachowski brothers tired to sell us about the power of the individual over the matrix (especially V for Vendetta), I believe I suffer from no illusion of the power of the individual or that individuals can and will coordinate to make the world a better place. All I have chosen to do is to retreat to a land that requires very little participation from me to survive.

I respect the strength of the faith of your convictions; I, however, am unable (or unwilling) to establish such faith. And, as we all know, faith is either an all or nothing proposition.

I hope that I will not be viewed as being obtuse by sharing this quote, from John Calvin (1536), with you:

And as Christ teaches, here is our only ground for firmness and confidence: in order to free us of all fear and render us victorious amid so many dangers, snares, and mortal struggles, he (sic) promises that whatever the Father has entrusted into his keeping will be safe. From this we infer that all those who do not know that they are God's own will be miserable through constant fear.

Removing Faith from its typical religious connotations and applying it to secular life, we can still realize that Faith - in something, anything - is the source of all confidence. Faith is usually wrapped up in love which is why the betrayal of a loved one is so psychologically earth-shattering.

My education and life-experience has opened the flood-gates to all sorts of doubts and questions, limiting the strength of my faith in anything or anyone, thus rendering it useless.

It is thus learning and memory that is the challenge to faith and peace of mind which, most would argue (especially of the latter), cannot be controlled. This argument is presented beautifully in Nineteen Eighty Four, my favorite novel, at the Ministry of Love (re-education center):

On the contrary,...you have not controlled it. That is what has brought you here. You are here because you have failed in humility, in self-discipline. You would not make the act of submission which is the price of sanity. You preferred to be a lunatic, a minority of one. Only the disciplined mind can see reality.... It needs an act of self-destruction, an effort of the will.

Nevertheless, one of the few ideas that keeps me going during times of self-doubt is an earlier quote from the same source:

"Sanity is not statistical."

I am no Morpheus, no revolutionary, and certainly no saviour. I am a rebel only in the sense that I have run away from the grind that most of my countrymen suffer through day by day by selling their time and their thoughts to slavery. The question is how long I, or anyone, can hold out.

 

man then why did you come to live anyway

education is a failure in its own. teaching a person to ask questions is bad education. it must teach the individual to find the asnwer, not suffer in doubt. as morpheus says "do not ask questions. know" or smt like this

youre from taiwan? im from turkey. in countries like ours, education is worse than the usual. in such un-quality education systems the individuals are destroyed. we are tought to be a mass, not a person. so if a student is more intelligent then the rest of the class, theyre beaten down back. becouse to succeed in our classes we dont need intelligence. so an intelligent kid naturally becomes an outcast, either becomes very unsuccessful at school but very succesful at bussiness life or become a criminal and fail totally.

dont bother yourself with details. red pill blue pill theyre bullshit. red pills created ww1. just try to be free and happy as much as system lets you. and i tell you it lets you go very far about that.

 

The red and blue pills don't exist either. It doesn't matter which one you take because you will stay exactly the same person in exactly the same place. In my experience, most people ignore Morpheus, step around him and continue on with their boring, mundane lives that they have worked very hard for a long time to create and maintain.

We (GA) usually find the people that listen to him passed out, face down in the dirt under some bushes, with their pants pulled down off their rear ends (we took a picture). Must have chosen the red pill. Well, as long as they think that they are having a good time...

If you want change, do something. You won't change the world, but you can change your little piece of it. You probably already do, and you are not giving yourslf credit. Your contributions at the CO8 effect hundreds of people all over the world. Your previous post in this thread was a very interesting read, and I thank you for it. It will probably be food for thought for others, too.

It's Friday and we have patrol tonight, I've got to go get my cape out of the dryer. It's SO BORING being a comic book hero. Year in, year out, it's been 26 years! Damn it, I need a change! I KNOW! I'll become a Bicycle Repair Man...

 

Speaking as a teacher, I'm afraid I have to agree. My ex is an outstanding reading specialist. When she taught at the college level, her former students in education would call her up with intractable reading problems and, invariably, she found ways to help people to read. They gave her the title Dr. St. Jude. (Patron Saint of Lost Causes).

When she went to teach at the high school level, she ended up with a lot of students who were crazy or basically criminals. Of course, they also had reading difficulties, so she ended up baby-sitting them instead helping the few who had genuine problems.

In public school systems, there is a one size fits all approach that is dictated by the need to keep budgets low and not "waste" tax money. No one seems to remember that these are OUR children we are cheating.

Other than the fairy tale of increased school budgets, there are 2 things that will help:

If you know a child that is having difficulties in school, YOU step in and lend a helping hand. Often some one-on-one time with a non-professional will be the extra boost a struggling student needs. You don't even need a strong knowledge of what they are struggling with, just a lot of patience and a willingness to learn with them. When was the last YOU knew what the capital of Botswana is? (Gabarone)

Another thing you can do is take charge of your own education. If you are in school, sign up for courses in topics you are interested in or know could be useful. If you are not in school, read books in subject areas you are interested in. Make it a hobby.

Your best teacher is yourself. And the best way to teach others is by example.

 

It is APT! Go look at my cam-ho picture. I realized we are comic book heroes on a busy, hot August night in 1993 in Denver, Colorado. We had Angels from all over the US and Europe AND Perth, Australia. The Japanese Chapters had not started yet.) We had come for the annual international convention, but were interrupted when so much trouble started up the street. (What was the name of that street? Congess? Went past the gold dome.) The 2 dozen cops already there were flabergasted when over a hundred Angels showed up out of nowhere! We swarmed about 20 city blocks for the next three nights. Whee!

We could have done more, but our bicycles needed repair. If only...

 

I think you answered your own question. "Why do children need to know...", because ALL of the subjects in school are relatively important. Is there really an academic subject that is absolutely unimportant to all students? As an example, some could claim art, but how does someone know that something IS important until they are exposed to it?

The topics that are taught in public schools are pretty similar in most higher order cultures, AND ARE THE PRIMARY REASON THOSE CULTURES ARE HIGHER ORDER! Look at everything YOU contribute to society and find anything that did not have its start in your education. Hopefully, you have moved beyond what you were taught, or your education really has failed you. Are you REALLY going to claim your education didn't work?

If your question is, instead, why have they forgotten what they were taught? The answer is simple, what do they do with the rest of their time? What holds their interests? Where do their energies go? Do their parents teach them to respect their teachers and their education? What do they learn from their parents and friends?

Your disrespect for education is just kneejerk, just as you have been taught.

If you think education can be improved, I agree. How about this: reinstate the draft. But instead of making them fight a war, make them TEACH for 2 years at teachers' pay.