Random encounter shadows

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Waterd103, Jun 20, 2009.

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  1. wizgeorge

    wizgeorge Prophet of Wizardy

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    I gave Lareth a ac4 shield and ring+1 and the fight went much longer. At least he puts up a much better fight.
     
  2. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

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    Instead of casting another spell in first round of combat, have him start swinging! ;)
     
  3. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    Personally I find his use of sound burst pretty effective, considering your party are often well-beatied at that point. But no matter what we do with him, its not going to be a challenging fight. He will probably auto-cast CLW when wounded, and with 6 or so characters standing around him beating him, he's gonna be pretty regularly wounded. :shrug:
     
  4. wizgeorge

    wizgeorge Prophet of Wizardy

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    The end result will probably be the same if you're intent on killing him, but he should be able to put up a tough fight and go down swinging. He has to go to continue the storyline, so I guess he's doomed.
     
  5. Thorsson

    Thorsson Established Member

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    The problem is that really he should come charging out of his room when he hears the battle outside.
     
  6. erkper

    erkper Bugbear Monk Supporter

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    Take the healing spells (at least the effectively worthless CLWs) out of his memorized list. He's evil, so he can't spontaniously cast them, right?
     
  7. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    That has always been at the heart of so many ToEE problems: NPCs don't behave intelligently. They often don't even behave half-wittedly intelligently.

    Lareth will not join his troops when sounds of battle are evident nearby. He will not question you when you come in after killing his troops until you initiate conversation. He won't even notice that his troops are dead if you leave after killing them and come back days later. So for players who are not just using ToEE as a combat-sim, there are a lot bigger problems than his spell selection or whether he swings his mace or not. :shrug:

    I don't know why we never just sent a scout in there to get him after combat starts.
     
  8. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    Because he'd probably be stuck in the player's Web spell anyway :)

    Joking aside, we've discussed bringing Lareth into the fight before, and one of the objections raised was that his surrender plotline would look pretty wonky if he's surrounded by his men. So unless you plan to handle that, it's best left alone.

    Having him run off in case the players slaughters his men and returns days later is doable. But if you just made him disappear with no follow up, players would just feel cheated. There has to be a follow up, which means more work. And who's going to do that? I'm sure anyone could come up with a ton of cool ideas on what to do in that situation, that will never really get implemented... the reality is that we've got our hands full as it is, unless new modders crop up.

    Thankfully, at least Livonya made him initiate conversation if you tried grabbing his Journal. His scripting can be further improved to detect players enterting his room, though, with some not-overly-complex heart-beat scripting. (cycle through game.party, check is_safe_to_talk or something similar, and verify that the X,Y coordinate is within his room's bounding box a la Wonnilon Hideout scripting, and fire off dialogue). Any objections? (besides "now I can't get my tanks in flanking positions"...)
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2009
  9. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

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    There needs to be a consistent way to talk to him without fighting the crowd in his anteroom, so he can call them down on you. Or maybe have him summon a brace of driders, or something.
     
  10. MB

    MB Member

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    Here's a thought: Could you send a scout to get Lareth on say round 4 of combat with his men and the party? Then on say round 5, could he "teleport" to a location within sight of the party and began speaking to them or just initate combat with party?
     
  11. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    Most things could be done, as Sitra suggests, by someone with the initiative. I had a quick go at puytting Lareth on a delay so that he would walk out of his room some seconds after you killed his corridor guards, but it didn't really work.
    In KotB I've found 'has_los' works just fine for momens like this - he won't see you till you open the door.
     
  12. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    That's not a bad idea, just disable the guards' hostility entirely (unless you just openly attack them, of course). But, if you get into Lareth's chambers and then he summons his guards, it will be easy to keep them all out by jamming the doorway, while poor Lareth still gets pummeled in a 4-5-6-7-8 on 1 beatdown. :punch:

    I have no objection to the dialog-upon-entering thing, but this really would be a deserving area to focus our attention on. We may not have the resources to make every battle in ToEE a tactical challenge, but the primary battles would make good priorities.
     
  13. Lightsfantastic

    Lightsfantastic Member

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    Does he HAVE to stay in his little room? Why not put him in the room with his henchmen?
     
  14. MB

    MB Member

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    That's a good idea. Could Lareth start in the room with his guards and when a pc comes within 40' or LOS dialogue be initiated? If combat in the room goes badly could he be scripted to fade out and fade in back in his room?
     
  15. Emirkol the Chaotic

    Emirkol the Chaotic Proud Polytheist

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    You know, I like that idea... it would make the moathouse fight much more challenging with Lareth able to effectively use his spells. If the fights' going badly or he's wounded, he can be scripted to run into his room.
     
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