Random encounter shadows

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Waterd103, Jun 20, 2009.

Remove all ads!
  1. wizgeorge

    wizgeorge Prophet of Wizardy

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,715
    Likes Received:
    2
    I gave Lareth a ac4 shield and ring+1 and the fight went much longer. At least he puts up a much better fight.
     
  2. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    5
    Instead of casting another spell in first round of combat, have him start swinging! ;)
     
  3. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    12,654
    Likes Received:
    352
    Personally I find his use of sound burst pretty effective, considering your party are often well-beatied at that point. But no matter what we do with him, its not going to be a challenging fight. He will probably auto-cast CLW when wounded, and with 6 or so characters standing around him beating him, he's gonna be pretty regularly wounded. :shrug:
     
  4. wizgeorge

    wizgeorge Prophet of Wizardy

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,715
    Likes Received:
    2
    The end result will probably be the same if you're intent on killing him, but he should be able to put up a tough fight and go down swinging. He has to go to continue the storyline, so I guess he's doomed.
     
  5. Thorsson

    Thorsson Established Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    4
    The problem is that really he should come charging out of his room when he hears the battle outside.
     
  6. erkper

    erkper Bugbear Monk Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,201
    Likes Received:
    7
    Take the healing spells (at least the effectively worthless CLWs) out of his memorized list. He's evil, so he can't spontaniously cast them, right?
     
  7. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    11,029
    Likes Received:
    42
    That has always been at the heart of so many ToEE problems: NPCs don't behave intelligently. They often don't even behave half-wittedly intelligently.

    Lareth will not join his troops when sounds of battle are evident nearby. He will not question you when you come in after killing his troops until you initiate conversation. He won't even notice that his troops are dead if you leave after killing them and come back days later. So for players who are not just using ToEE as a combat-sim, there are a lot bigger problems than his spell selection or whether he swings his mace or not. :shrug:

    I don't know why we never just sent a scout in there to get him after combat starts.
     
  8. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    3,613
    Likes Received:
    537
    Because he'd probably be stuck in the player's Web spell anyway :)

    Joking aside, we've discussed bringing Lareth into the fight before, and one of the objections raised was that his surrender plotline would look pretty wonky if he's surrounded by his men. So unless you plan to handle that, it's best left alone.

    Having him run off in case the players slaughters his men and returns days later is doable. But if you just made him disappear with no follow up, players would just feel cheated. There has to be a follow up, which means more work. And who's going to do that? I'm sure anyone could come up with a ton of cool ideas on what to do in that situation, that will never really get implemented... the reality is that we've got our hands full as it is, unless new modders crop up.

    Thankfully, at least Livonya made him initiate conversation if you tried grabbing his Journal. His scripting can be further improved to detect players enterting his room, though, with some not-overly-complex heart-beat scripting. (cycle through game.party, check is_safe_to_talk or something similar, and verify that the X,Y coordinate is within his room's bounding box a la Wonnilon Hideout scripting, and fire off dialogue). Any objections? (besides "now I can't get my tanks in flanking positions"...)
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2009
  9. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    5
    There needs to be a consistent way to talk to him without fighting the crowd in his anteroom, so he can call them down on you. Or maybe have him summon a brace of driders, or something.
     
  10. MB

    MB Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2005
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here's a thought: Could you send a scout to get Lareth on say round 4 of combat with his men and the party? Then on say round 5, could he "teleport" to a location within sight of the party and began speaking to them or just initate combat with party?
     
  11. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    12,654
    Likes Received:
    352
    Most things could be done, as Sitra suggests, by someone with the initiative. I had a quick go at puytting Lareth on a delay so that he would walk out of his room some seconds after you killed his corridor guards, but it didn't really work.
    In KotB I've found 'has_los' works just fine for momens like this - he won't see you till you open the door.
     
  12. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    11,029
    Likes Received:
    42
    That's not a bad idea, just disable the guards' hostility entirely (unless you just openly attack them, of course). But, if you get into Lareth's chambers and then he summons his guards, it will be easy to keep them all out by jamming the doorway, while poor Lareth still gets pummeled in a 4-5-6-7-8 on 1 beatdown. :punch:

    I have no objection to the dialog-upon-entering thing, but this really would be a deserving area to focus our attention on. We may not have the resources to make every battle in ToEE a tactical challenge, but the primary battles would make good priorities.
     
  13. Lightsfantastic

    Lightsfantastic Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2007
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    0
    Does he HAVE to stay in his little room? Why not put him in the room with his henchmen?
     
  14. MB

    MB Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2005
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's a good idea. Could Lareth start in the room with his guards and when a pc comes within 40' or LOS dialogue be initiated? If combat in the room goes badly could he be scripted to fade out and fade in back in his room?
     
  15. Emirkol the Chaotic

    Emirkol the Chaotic Proud Polytheist

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,436
    Likes Received:
    1
    You know, I like that idea... it would make the moathouse fight much more challenging with Lareth able to effectively use his spells. If the fights' going badly or he's wounded, he can be scripted to run into his room.
     
Our Host!