Random encounter shadows

SPOILERS BELOW






Curiosly i'm at the end of the game i think? i have some level ten nine and eight and i'm in the fourth level of the temple, it feels like the end , maybe is not.
But i never was my party wiped in all the rest of the game, nor i feelt another unfair situation. I had some deaths in the team, and that's why i have level disparities.
And all this considering i pressured myself into doing a fast time, so i didn't rest abuse all the time.
anyway, the game is unfair in stupid ways, i got in though spots a few times, and most of my single member deaths were based on teh same thing. The first death is memorable, as i MISCLICKED in the mouthouse, i wanted to loot and instead i got down the stair, an ogre came and killed my Sorcerer in one hit. (this death was fine)
Two kills and though spots almost kills happend because the same issue. Sometimes you press alt and do a movement, and the game doesn't tell you that you will have an opportunity attack, then do the move and the opportunity attack happens.

One kill was memorable, because imo that shouldn't happen? i was in the second floor i think , of the temple. I talked with the water leader? and he told me as second mission to go kill some fire temple leader. I went and i talk to him and told about hte water temple plan, and he says ok. And we arrange so i go to get some recruits for him. The moment i open the door to go out, their team attack me. Sicne i was srurpised, my sorcerer wasn't ready and only had mage armor, (she has dex 14 and con 7 , so she was an easy target)
and while it wasn't instant she ended killed i had a big fight, and i won with the death of my sorcerer and 2 NPC.
i wonder, if that was a real trigger, that he accept to send you on a mission and attack you as soon as you turn the back on him? It seemded like too random too me.

Wich reminds me. I never was able to complete the quest of the water leader guy. He asked me to kill the prision guards and plant the robe. Well i killed the prision guards, but since i had an important death on that fight (my barbarian was slaughtered by 2 critical hits), I went out of the temple to revive my barbarian. Wheni came back the bodies of hte temple guards had dissapeared. I tried to told that to the water leader. But he insist on putting the robe...on them..but there aren't any bodies there!.
I never could complete the quest. ISn't that a bug?

There was one single fight that it appeared to be unfair other than the shadows i found on teh first run, but you can flee from it.

So at this point I can say that the shadow fight that happend in my first run (never happen again in the second run , even on higher levels), was the most unfair thing i saw in the whole game, and likely the most unfair and stupid thing i experimented in any D&D and/or RPG in general.

Still maybe there is still a lot of game for me to explore and i find something more unfair?

Btw i had to figure out myself the rules for flee. And there is only two rules. One you must know an exit of the place, second if you know the exit but you enter the new place, save, quit, reenter, and load, you "forgot" the exit, and can't flee until you show the game you know the exit by exiting and reentering. but you can flee even completly sourrounded. And in my experience IT ALWAYS success, but you will see some opportunity attacks on your team.

 

Hello Waterd103,

Were you wearing the water robes? The minute you leave the leader after talking to him, his team will attack if you are not wearing the water robes. There are diiferent robes for each temple. If you are wearing the robes of that temple you will not be attacked.

How long did it take you to revive your barbarian. Where did you go? The bodies will disappear leaving only the gear depending how much time elapsed. You could asumme that carrion feeders can along and had a feast.


If you went down to the fourth level of the temple did you kill Hedrack, the commanders of the temple or meet Senshock and access the secret level to meet the final boss or go to the elemental nodes and find all the power gems to make Orb more powerful? If not you still have more game to play.

 

Actually, before you get to the ancient demon, you will face off with a minor god. You are near the endgame if you have meet and defeated Hedrack. If you are playing with the mod, the dungeon level four has an interesting trap you have to get by to get to Hedrack. If you have not met this trap you may not be on dungeon level 4 of the temple.

If you are not playing the mod, you will still see a long corridor with a white patterned floor and be able to rescuse the fair Paida. If not, you may not be on dungeon level 4.

Small hint: The elemental nodes may be to your liking. It requires some decision-making and resource management to defeat the guardians and grab the power gems.
You will also want to grab the Orb of Golden Death if you have not already found it.

 

i for one am impressed that you ran a sorcerer with 7 constitution.

I never run any class with less than 12, but i guess if you're rolling stats you gotta take what you can get

You ARE approaching the endgame areas, but you're not quite engame yet as people have said.

 

Thanks a lot for the replies, but a few notes.

Try to not spoil me. Now i saw something about demon, demigods and gems, i didn't know that, i tried to jump that. Try to not include spoils that are beyond the point i said i reached i tell how far i got for a reason.

About the sorcerer with 7 con. Yeah it was my last character and i roll and got 7,7,14,15,16,11. I wnated a sorcerer, and have a few background plans.

So i made her 7/14/7/15/11/16. The reason i put the 7 in con instead if int, wis and dex, is that for roleplay, is that in the background plan i choose based on those numbers, is of a weak evil women. that relied on intelligence and cunning to survive in the town she lieved where they despice sorcerers. JA.

So it didn't make any sense for her to have more constitution than any other stat nor strength for that matter.

Anyway, she died 3 times, 2 with an instant hit. But now i learned to give her a shower of spells of protection (blur, mirror image, shield, mage armor, bear endurance, Barskin) before opening any door) Rifht after i post this i will continue the game.

 

Waterd103,

I was not trying to spoil it for you. I was trying to figure out where in the temple you are. You asked:

My questions were simply to pinpoint where you are in the temple. You say you are on the fourth level. How are you counting? Most of us count the first level as the main floor and number the other levels from dungeon 1 (Earth Temple), dungeon 2(Air,Water and Fire temple), dungeon 3 (Keys to the four doors) and dungeon 4 (Greater temple and elemental nodes) and then finally the secret level.

What level are you on?

 

Ok, after that i fight the army and got my fighter well armed with red armor. Was an wasy fight, to be honest most where an easy fights until......

...

...

The giant red demon. He killed my 3 NPCS, and 2 characteres, what's worst, i lost one NPC forever.
I had this hill giant, who was a monster, and was charmed! i had to kill him. But after i kill him, he disppared from my team, so even if i revided him he would attack me.

The giant read deamon was a problem to me in many ways. My fighters refused to fight, so i had to gain time, i thought i had an use for greater dispell at least, but if failed to remove fear or charmed. Lucky the red demon fall trap of the same way i beat allmsot everyone (and that bring me to other point) I just mass summoned him, and he kept fighting my summons, that gave me time for fear to go, and i rehealed my barbarian and fighter, stoneskin, etc. Once i runned out of summons I took all my team to fight, only barbarian, fighte, sorcerer and a bear survived. I had to go back to town to revive the team.
I was lucky to realize IN MIDDLE fight what the orb did, because that VROCK gained me the time to rearm my fighter and barbarian.

I had deaths in my team before, but more were based on pure surprise first attack. Criticals. But this was the first last and only fight were the fight was very long and my team started to die. The real hit was not the deamon, but the charm, the charm owned me. I builded that giant like a juggernaut.

So i lost my builded giant, and 2 more npcs and 2 characters died.
That charm was a little unfair, and such tought fight when all else was so easy, was a little unfair in surprise. But at least they setup the thing well, the moment you see that deamon, you know things are going to get grim.

Anyway to my point.
Basically druids seems overpowered. I basically walk through all the game with my double druid mass summons and mass enchantments.
I don't think houw would i beat the deamon without my double druid.

On the other hand My Ranged ranger, seemed useless thourhg all the game, he has 32 Dexterity, and is useless.

It also feel unfair that at this point the harded, if you don't have holy damage, you don't do damage.

Btw It took 32 days and 19 hours for me to reach the endgame (ingame) using infinite wand of restorations and cure critical, after 8 hours of rest.

Maybe i would do another run later to try surpass that time. BUT, i want to add more rules to make it more challening. First is only one summon per character (because really, mass summons is kind of lame, and make things to easy).

I was thinking only enchanting in fights (havving all your team with all the enanching spells like cat grace, bull strenght,etc, and most important, protection from elements andh Stoneskin, makes things too easy too). ON the otherhand, since only 2 characteres in your team do damage, (because gods amd deamons can only be damaged mainly with holy, and thus you need fighters)If those characteres aren't full of enchantments, it seems impossible to win.
At least in my team my ranged that was based on ranged attacks, was useless, wich was very sad, i love characteres based on bows attacks, and this one was used mainly to poke mirror images and kill weak minions, and even that he did at a pathetic rate.

On the other hand this is all based on the first run where i didn't know what toe xpect, maybe if you do, before evey big fight you need is important, you can gain time with some characteres in front, while in the back your casteres fill of enchantments the fighters.

Anyway i find that Mass summons + Mass enchatnments make the game too easy, and thus the only difficult fight was the red deamon AND because he charmed the hill giant. who was level 8, and had 2xx live and was hitting with a madman, with all the items i gave him. And all this having into account htat i was trying to do a good ingame time (ok i used liek 15 days in the nods of the 32, because fights were depleting all my resources, also they interrputed my rests a ton of times)
I don't know how is in D&D.
But for example in shattered lands, a character cna't control more than one summon at the same time (wich makes summons more fair) Also in JRPG you can't enchant outside battles, wich makes enchantments mroe fair.
In any case it woudl be better if enchantemtns woudl be more powerfull , but, you can only use them in battle.

Well my run ended, and i didn't lose my team even once. I can say now with condifence, tht hte hardest thing in the game, is that you get sourrounded by 5 shadows when you are level 2, and have no magical items.

The goddess seemed a little pathetic, she died by a slying spell.....:S i thoguth a godess would be inmune to such spell.

EDIT: I readed some of the spoilers in this thread. So i can choose somehow to fight the goddess without the orb? i think i wouldn't have a chance without the orb. I think the fight was easy because i summoned 3 big monsters, in fact, the red deamon killed her with a sly spell very fast. But my team was suffering, i already did 300 damage, and she was in barly hurt or something like that.

And now that i think about it. If you know well the game, you can go first with the orbs to the other guardiands (who doesn't cast charm, JA), and get 2 deamons and kill the red deamon with 2 deamons of your own. And then kill the godess with red deamon and another deamon.
Still i think that without having Stoneskin preenchanted it wouldn't work? I depended so much on stoneskin that and other enchantments and mass summons, that everthign else seems weak.

Edit 3: Something unfair was the electric trap. Why is a trap if i cna't disable it? my level 10 rouge couldn't do anything. She couldn;'t even talk to the ...box? (i had serena) wtf.
I had the most pathetic deat there, i tried to run it through wiht my fighter and D I E D. What a stupid death, i had to revive and lose a level becaus a trap, 13x lifes to 0 in 4 seconds.
After that i realized that i shoudla use spells. But how you are supposed to go through it if you don't have a resist electricity spell?
If you have a party of 5 fighters, you lose? that seems stupid or soemthing (of course in the first run, now if i make a second run and have, say 5 fighters, to get some pointion of resist element., or does the sorcerer that i nevered joined my gropu has resist element spell?)

 

Hello Waterd103,

Yes the Balor Guardian can be a real pain. But as far as the electricity trap. Note small spolier coming.

If you explore the 4th dungeon level you will come to some trolls. One of the trolls has a bit of information that will allow you to disarm the trap using the control box. Now there is more than one group of trolls so you have to defeat them all to find the right one.

Strategy :if you have a paladin in your party the fear spell has no effect on the paladin. If you have rescued the prince you will eventually be rewarded with Scather. (The sword alomost always hits.) If you have a mage with greater invisiblity. Equip the paladin with Scather. Have the mage cast greater invisiblity on him. Have the paladin go and attack the balor and party on. Have the cleric or mage summon a large earth elemental and sit him right next to the balor. The balor will focus on the elemental. You should be able to kill the balor with just your paladin. If you cannot get Scather. The Frost blade enchanted with holy is good also. Use the other members to take care of the creatures guarding the balor and his summons.

 

Thanks.
now i didn't had a paladin.
Also I rescued the prince, but he never sended me anything.
I don't know any frost sword.

All i had was a great axe holy, and a warhammer holy.

Anyway it ended, better that there are things i didn't see, because this time i runned with a true neutral party of druids, rangers, and barbarians, and tried to keep balance.

Next time i will play a chaotic evil party and slaughter fest. I hope i see different things.

Have in mind that i don't like to sidequest, so i try to always focus on mainquest, until something calls the attention of my party alignament.

Now I will talk about two things.

One, what i found the most unfair fight. It was on the third level of the temple, i enter the nodes and there is a cleric that instantly from nowhere summons a horde of salamanders, befor ei react, i got fireballed. I didn't have serious problem because pressions "flee combat" solved everthing. But the power of that encounter seemed above everthing else until that point, i had a party level 4 by then. But since you can just flee, i think is ok.

Second. I accepted a quest where the guardian of homlet told me a super long story about a lich, i went to the place, and explored, and explored, and never found nothing, i got tired of it and leaved . It seemed like bugged really. It's a bug? or what did i have to do?

 

Some very patient people on these forums. Kudos to you guys...

 

Hi WaterD
Allow me to add a few comments and advice if I may.

I hope this helps.
The Royal Canadian

 

Waterd103,

How is this fight unfair? You took a 4th level party into the fire temple to face the commander of the temple. His army consists of noble salamanders and fire brothers. Your party was not ready to handle this army. Your party got fireballed and did not have enough hp or power to take them out. Also the commander is protecting two good weapons.

You were trying to get the best in game time and you skipped quests and fights that could have helped. This is why you never received Scather. The party with the prince's reward takes a while to find you. The fights in the mod are also tougher than plain vanilla TOEE.

The mod is a work in progress. Co8 is extending the life of TOEE by creating the mod and KOTB. But, this is a volunteer effort, so some things may not be finished.

 

The downside to using a paladin in TOEE is that you cannot do certain quests. Since the paladin is lawful good doing any of the quests for the clerics in the temple will cause the paladin to fall. The paladin loses all the advantages of the class.

So if you have a paladin in the party you are basically on a kill and destroy mission in the temple (except for rescuing prisoners). Also, certain feats are not available to the paladin.

 

The Balor fight and the Salamander fight are some of the toughest, if not the toughest in the game. Many, many, many times I've had a well rounded, well leveled, and well equipped party of 8 have their rear ends handed to them.

Again, it appears that in your haste to complete the game in "record time", you missed the crucial experience and items that would have helped you. Have you looted/found every ring of Fire Resistance? Did you find the "Holy" Ransuer?

You've claimed "mass summonings" are over powered. Maybe so, but summoned creatures are vulnerable to various banishing and "quick slaying" spells such as Finger of Death, etc.

And yes, even Demon Ladies, as powerful as Zuggy herself, fall prey to a bad saving throw once in a while, hence your "quick kill". Try again, you won't be so lucky. There are several different ways to face Zuggy in her various power levels with and without the Golden Skull.

I just can't help but feel that you're too impatient with this game. It's not one of "instant-gratification". It's a measured, well-paced, story driven game. Speeding through it, while fun, just doesn't do the game, or the mods, proper justice.