Questions about archery

There are no composite shortbows for 16+ Str in this game though, so the (18 Str) longbow ends up doing an avg of +3 dmg better than the shortbow (14 Str). In PNP D&D there is no cap on the Str possible for any sized composite bow, so it seems awfully prejudicial for the cabinet-maker to make an 18 Str longbow but not an 18 Str shortbow (though this is easily remedied for those willing to modify their protos.tab).

As for all of you in a rush to get 3 archery feats at 1st level, I completely disagree with you. The archery path just doesn't have many useful feats so if you rush to get them, there's nothing for you to pick up at later levels. What do you do with your 9th+ level feats? A bunch of Skill Focuses?

 

I've always tended to make human rogues and take Point Blank and Precise Shot at character creation. I never use them to backstab- their sole purpose is ranged attacks. By the time their 10th level with Crippling Strike it's a lot of fun taking down a 100+ HP enemy in a single turn- and that's w/o the benefit of Haste, Invisibility, Improved Invisibility, etc.- although to be fair they will have some enchantments crated to their bows as well as wearing +6 Gloves of Dexterity. . Combined with their Dodge and Evasion feats and a high rank in Tumbling and few enemy are going to lay a finger on them- they've saved a lot of my parties over the years by making sure that my melee guys and gals can get to the enemy w/o having to worry about being backstabbed themselves or blown to bits by an enemy spell...

 

Hhhhmmm, let's see:
Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot (or Rapid Reload for X-bow), Manyshot;
Dodge, Mobility, Shot on the Run; (edit) and Farshot.
Improved Critical and Weapon Focus, which are both weapon specific and can be chosen again for additional weapons.
That's at least 9-10 archery Feats for any class archer other than Fighter -- who can add Wpn Spec (4th lvl) and Greater Wpn Focus (8th lvl).

Quick Draw is absolutely imperative for thrown weapons, including hurling vials of holy water or acid efficiently, and you know, for just being quick on the draw;
and a lot of people like Improved Initiative for any situation, but especially Rogues for the sneak attack damage Farshot is great for things like slings and thrown weapons ... or for shooting over halfway across Emridy Meadows with a longbow.

Plus, some classes can Craft at least to a limited degree -- enough to enchant the wpn of their choice and gain Gloves of DX and Bracers of Archery, without needing to rely on the "other guy" of the typical crafting classes. So, that's 2 more feats (Craft Misc and Craft Wps/Armor).

I lost count ... but that seems like a plethora of feats to keep an archer choosing well past 9th level.

 

1. Many shot and shot on the run are standard actions incompatible with rapid shot. Because taking a full action to rapid shot maximizes damage, I'm going to always do that instead, so manyshot, dodge, mobility, and shot on the run all get thrown out.

2. I'm going to craft a badass weapon (bow or sling), so it's pretty silly to take weapon-specific feats in multiple weapons.

3. Thrown weapons are out of the question because it's a huge hassle in-game to constantly put a new weapon in hand for throwing, so quick draw is out.

4. Rapid reload is also out because bows (which can add Str dmg) are better than xbows.

5. Crafting is legit for my archers (because I tend to only have my casters as archers) but people here were talking about focused archers not archer-casters, so crafting (and other caster feats like spell focus, metamagic, etc.) wouldn't apply.

6. Fighter specific feats are applicable but you only get access to those by getting high enough fighter levels to get more bonus feats than you can take fighter-specific feats, so we can ignore those.

That leaves: precise shot, point blank shot, rapid shot, weapon focus, improved initiative, and improved critical. That's it. 6 feats. If you take 3 at 1st-level there are only 3 worthwhile feats left to take and you're done at 9th level (and a pure rogue archer would have to wait for 12th to get improved crit, so there wouldn't be any feat to take at 9th). If you take a 2nd fighter level, you won't even have a feat to take at 6th level (because improved crit won't be available yet).

 

A rouge could take crippling strike at 10th level, a very effective feat when you're within 30 feet of the guy you sneak attack.

Many shot and Rapid shot are both viable in the same build if the feats are used properly.

Rapid shot gives that extra shot each round and Many shot allows you to move and still fire at least two arrows, more if you BAB is high enough. Many Shot also requires you to be within 30 feet of the guy you're attacking.

 

I miss the times when rogues were just thieves and noone mixed them up with french cosmetics... :tired:

 

No, you misunderstand. A rouge is a rogue that wears Red.

And was that back in the day when no one considered noone a word?

 

Unless the feats don't work like they are supposed to, they cannot possibly be used together:

Manyshot: "As a standard action, you may fire two arrows . . ."

Rapid Shot: ". . . You must use the full attack action to use this feat".

A standard action and full attack action are two different types of actions, so on any given turn, you can only use one of these feats. And rapid shot is better.

Rapid shot gives you an average bonus of +.5 to +1.5 to hit (PLUS an extra shot at -2 relative to your worst attack). Manyshot gives you +0 shots (relative to a full attack) at an average penalty of -1.5, -1, or -.5 to hit. So manyshot is worse than not using a feat at all (except it lets you move more, but if you need to move more than 5 ft when you shoot, you were just standing in the wrong place to begin with).

I'm not saying manyshot is a complete waste of a feat in real D&D, where you might find yourself in situations where moving and shooting is essential. But in TOEE, it is a complete waste of a feat: rapid shot is always better.

 

Right, but they are both useful when used correctly.

Rapid shot is for when you have a clear shot and don't need to move to get your shot off, (pesky doorways and boulders).

Many shot is for when you do need to move to get a clear shot, you may not get the four or five shots a high level archer can make, but you do get at least two shots and more with a high enough BAB.

So, both feats are useful to a smart archer, but yes you can't use them in the same round.

 

When was that?
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/22151/22151-h/22151-h.htm

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/noone

 

i guess I should post a link also http://grammarist.com/spelling/no-one-noone/

This could go on forever, or you could look up noone in the Merriam Webster Dictionary.

 

I am in the middle of a 2-character game now, 1 dual-axe wielder and 1 archer. I have completed all the original content (and am up to the slaver's quest). And there has literally never been a moment in the game in which my archer was unable to make a full attack but would have been able to move and standard-action attack. I recognize that a big part of that is having played the game so many times that I know exactly what is where (and the fact that there are no random encounters within a map). I also recognize that the use of invisibility rings allows one to always position their characters exactly where they want before the start of a battle. But those things are part of the game. And given the game that we have, there is no reason to take the manyshot feat (with the possible exception of a solo-archer game, which I admit I have not yet tried).

 

Your opinion is valid, myself I don't always have a spell caster to craft rings and I tend to play my characters as if they've never seen the encounters before.

I've found many shot useful, (especially in the Temple) when I need to reposition my archers due to blocked shots, ie: doorways, corners and pillars.

 

Point blank shot will give you bonuses for firing near enemies. Far Shot will lessen the penalties for firing a certain distance. That said, longbows have really large range. You shouldn't ever need Far Shot.

Elven Chain is considered Light IIRC, so you should be able to wear that with no penalty. Wearing Plate though will make your Ranger lose his bonuses.

Rushing for the feats, makes your archer a lot better early game though. Fighters and Rangers are the best archers for early game without a doubt. If your looking into endgame though, generally you be better looking into Bards (Thats right, Bards) or Rogues for an endgame archer (Rangers are still solid for an endgame archer though). Since yeah, once your archer gets all the archery related feats, they don't really have much other options to pick from.

Its really a playstyle preference in all honesty. If you feel the need to reposition your archer a lot mid-battle, than go for Manyshot. If you find you don't need to reposition very often, then don't bother grabbing it.

Losing 1 feat slot to Manyshot isn't a game changer for an archer anyway unless your archer is doing other things as well, such as crafting or even flinging spells.

 

Far shot is useful in the water and fire nodes. With an invisible spotter, you can take on the hardest foes without worry.