Project Jerkstop: The Final Solution

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by Gaear, Mar 14, 2012.

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  1. Daryk

    Daryk Veteran Member

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    That's about the same distance from the Welcome Wench that I've seen the problem when I approach from the north, south, and west (trying to hug the stream). The one thing I haven't tried yet is elminating the group at the Wench, then fighting at the Grove.
     
  2. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    OK, I've just tested this by fighting the gang right outside the defense building, then the Welcome Wench, then The Druids Grove, then All of The Exits except the north one.

    I had absolutely NO "jerkstop" until I approached the Church and could see the bad guys.

    I had the same "click and move a few inches" like before until you just can't move at all.

    I initiated combat by having an archer do a "full attack" but the game hung at the end of her attack.

    I was able to continue the battle by accessing her inventory, but that only prolonged the inevitable freeze up.

    On a side note; I was facing 27 bad guys, was this plus my 5 man party to many actors on the stage?
     
  3. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

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    Jerkstop always reminded me of when in Vanilla the party would forward at the Moathouse and the movement would terminate, but combat with the Giant Frogs didn't initiate.
     
  4. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Funny, just goes to show how erratic JS is ... normally the church is a clean area.

    No, there will never be too many actors in combat, because the game just ignores any enemies past 32 until one dies and a spot becomes available in the queue. The WotGS battles were specifically tailored with that in mind, assuming that the average party size is 5. It's a shame in a way because an army would not really limit it's attack to skirmishes, I don't suppose, but those are the limitations of ToEE. It doesn't function like a war-game simulator.

    By and large, indications are that there is something wrong with the Welcome Wench's sector having to do with any number of possible things. The problem is we can't figure out what. There is nothing obviously wrong there.

    Thanks for all the feedback/brainstorming, everyone. One day we'll at least figure out how to go around this. :thumbsup:
     
  5. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    Please keep in mind Gaear, that when I attacked the Wench first it went smoothly.

    It seems to me as if something is building up and when it reaches a certain level we get jerkstop.

    I wonder if there is a way to completely remove one of the large battles, (temporarily) and see if the map is doable, then add that combat back in and remove another and so on until we have removed each of the big battles.

    What I mean is;
    Remove the Welcome Wench battle and test.
    Put the Welcome Wench battle back and remove the Druid's Grove and test.
    Put the Druid's Grove back and remove the Church and test.
    And so on.

    This way we would know if it's a certain part of the map, or an accumulation of something else and it doesn't show itself until a certain criteria is reached.

    I have a funny feeling that where the jerkstop starts has a great deal to do with which battle is first.
     
  6. Ranth

    Ranth Established Member

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    I have a theory. In all of my previous games, I lagged at the fire node a bit and the fire temple. However, this is the first time I have ever experienced Jerkstop in level 2 not in the fire temple. I have been considering what is new about this time, and I think I know.

    Normally, when I play, I have 1 save file for 'Good Campaign' and another for 'Good Battle'. I would overwrite the files as appropriate. However, this time I got lazy and just kept saving entirely new files whenever I wanted to. I probably have 50+ save files. I do not know why it might matter, but to those of you who get jerkstop often do you have a few save files or tons?

    The fact that jerkstop occurs later in the game, when a player would have a lot of save files, might add weight to this theory. I have no idea why the number of save files would matter, but ToEE is strange for a lot of reasons.

    Edit: In fact, I have always lagged before. Now I understand what jerkstop is.
     
  7. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Which are we talking about here, lag or jerkstop? Jerkstop happens almost exclusively only in Hommlet exterior, while lag happens in the Nodes and Temple Level 4 and 2 near the Fire Temple traditionally.

    Lag: game freezes for anywhere from a few seconds to a few minutes to forever.

    Jerkstop: characters don't complete movement commands and only go short distances; gets progressively worse.
     
  8. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    I am speaking of jerkstop in Homlette.
     
  9. Ranth

    Ranth Established Member

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    I must have lag then. My apologizes.
     
  10. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

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    I probably should have given the name more thought. I was just tired of of saying "That thing where..." back when no one was paying attention.
     
  11. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    I don't quite follow here ... you have or have not experienced lag this time around? (I think I'm getting confused by the "first time I have ever ... not" combo. ;))
     
  12. Ranth

    Ranth Established Member

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    Once you defined jerkstop, I no longer believe I am experiencing it. I am experiencing lag worse this play through than I have on any other play through. Just ignore my comments.
     
  13. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Well it's significant as well because in the last release we implemented changes intended to reduce or eliminate lag. You're saying that lag is worse now than ever?
     
  14. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    Help me to understand this please.

    The total amount of "actors" at any given time cannot exceed 32 including the party and npc's?

    When a spot opens then the game calls on the next "actor" in the que?

    How does it know which one to call? Is a list of "tags" generated at the start of the battle.

    Or do the que'd actors continuously attempt to enter the battle and are rejected until a spot opens?

    I'm wondering if there is a chance for a never ending loop of an "actor" looking for a spot that's not open yet.

    Granted this may be a mute point, but my experience is based on a different game engine, (NWN2) and it does bog down when too many "actors" are waiting.

    In the past I have used an unseen virtual staging area for the game, (different engine) to call on them from in order to prevent this hit on the game's performance.
     
  15. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

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    During the time I was playing through the Moathouse Ambush that had eight versions of everything. (8 Torukos, etc), the main problem was CTD's. The game seemed to have no problem choosing the next mob to add to the queue. (There's a pisture of the fight in the courtyard somewhere.)

    I was a able to manage the size of the fight by the number of unconcious mobs I didn't coupe.

    The more active mobs there were, the unstable the game was. I'm not sure if the multiple copies of the same mob was a factor or not.
     
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