Project Jerkstop: The Final Solution

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by Gaear, Mar 14, 2012.

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  1. gazra_1971

    gazra_1971 Knights of Legend

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    Houston, we have jerkstop!

    I had not experienced jerkstop or had my party's characters stuck in combat stances at all. My party consists of 1 player-made rogue PC, 2 player-made fighter PCs, the NPCs Elmo, Fruella, Ronald, Kella, Spugnoir, and Kella's animal companion Polar Bear. All of the characters in my party are level 12, except for Ronald who is level 11 (but he has enough XP to level up). I have never used the console in my playthrough. I recently did item crafting while on the Verbobonc exterior map. The only item crafting that I have done in my playthrough is to change the Holy Greataxe +1 to a Holy Axiomatic Greataxe +3. My party then immediately went to the Temple of Elemental Evil and did the combat for the 'Monster Mash' quest. All of my characters were still under the effect of the spell Protection from Evil, and 1 of my fighters was still under the effect of the spell Enlarge Person when my party travelled on the world map to South Hommlet. The instant that my party reached Hommlet, I heard a sound effect that I think was the sound of all of those spells being dismissed. Then my party appeared on the Hommlet exterior map. As soon as my party started running around, all of my party's characters kept experiencing jerkstop. I have attached a game save. I tested the game save by quitting the game, then running the game again, and loading the game save - I've immediately experienced jerkstop when attempting to run my party around Hommlet using this game save.

    Note: The following game save has 2 other corruptions associated with it:
    1. Elmo's hovertext always appears at the very top of the screen.
    2. Spugnoir has a permanent Spell Object in his inventory that gives him the permanent affliction of Hezrou Stench (which counts down from 100 rounds, and then resets and repeats this indefinitely). Spugnoir got this Spell Object when my party fought the Balor Guardian (the Balor Guardian summoned a Hezrou during the combat).

    The following game save was created while playing 7.2.0 NC (with the 7.2.1 patch applied):

    Here are some screenshots showing my party's characters experiencing jerkstop while attempting to run around on the Hommlet exterior map in between the Inn of the Welcome Wench and Brother Smyth:
     

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    Last edited: Jun 4, 2012
  2. Zoltec

    Zoltec Pгōdigium

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    I'll look into this.
     
  3. Runiel

    Runiel Member

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    I use Box.com. It's free and gives you up to 1GB of file storage space.
     
  4. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    gazra, could the sound possibly have been the sound of many hammer-anvil strikes (like Brother Smyth's)?

    I upped the .rar attachment size to 1 MB btw.
     
  5. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Okay, I have seen gazra's jerjstop via the save, although it seems to be of the simple incomplete movements variety, not herky-jerky stops and starts and combat poses. I can't actually test much with it, being as save data is more significant than game data in most respects (e.g. changing game data will not magically change data in a save, just 'global' stuff). I did however re-enable fog of war in Hommlet exterior and that had no effect on the jerkstop.

    gazra, do you have a save from before you crafted that you could test? If so, please go back to that, do not craft, go bact to Hommlet (but without any spells active), and see if jerkstop appears. The Monster Mash element is probably irrelevent.
     
  6. Obadiah

    Obadiah Member

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    I'm running a 7.2 game as well, 4 evil rogues. Progress is slow as I am used to having a diverse group of 6 normally.

    Anyway, I thought I mentioned earlier about the last time I had jerkstop, it was when I had enlarge person spell on a party member and then entered the Hommlet map from the world map.... That might be something worth checking into.
     
  7. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

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    The incomplete movement after a movement command is given IS jerkstop.

    Erratic movement during movement would have to be something else. I've never had that (yet).
     
  8. gazra_1971

    gazra_1971 Knights of Legend

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    Find out for yourself. Load the first game save attached below, then immediately travel on the world map to either South Hommlet, North Hommlet, or East Hommlet and you WILL ALWAYS hear the sound. I should point out that the volume of the sound varies, so if it was quiet the first time that you heard it, reload the game save, travel to Hommlet again, and the sound will probably be louder this time.
    I tested this game save extensively by going to the 3 different destinations in Hommlet from the Temple of Elemental Evil exterior map. I found that going to South Hommlet would ALWAYS result in jerkstop. I found that going to East Hommlet NEVER results in jerkstop when running around East Hommlet. I found that travelling to North Hommlet resulted in jerkstop on one test (but the jerkstop was only triggered when running around North Hommlet by also scrolling the screen AT THE SAME TIME!). I then travelled from North Hommlet to South Hommlet using the world map and it resulted in the WORST jerkstop that I have EVER experienced!!! You can experience this crippling jerkstop for your self by loading the second game save attached below. This means that my game save outside the Temple of Elemental Evil is corrupt (because it ALWAYS results in jerkstop when I travel to South Hommlet) so I am going to have to go back to an earlier game save in order to try to avoid getting jerkstop in Hommlet.
    I wonder whether that sound (when arriving on the Hommlet exterior map) is causing jerkstop?

    I loaded a game save when my party was back at Verbobonc (i.e before I did the 'Monster Mash' combat) but AFTER I had done the item crafting (i.e. the item that I crafted is present), then immediately travelled on the world map to South Hommlet, where I did NOT experience jerkstop. Therefore, item crafting does not cause jerkstop. I have plenty of old game saves if you want to examine any of them, or if you want me to conduct any more tests.

    Note: I don't think that the file slot0363360.gsi is necessary but I included it in the sound when arriving at Hommlet.rar archive just in case because the file was created at the same time that the game save was.
     

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  9. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    So you are saying that player complaints about Hommlet freezing up so bad that they have to quit or go to the world map and party members appearing in combat stances upon exiting the inn etc. is not jerkstop? I thought all three of those things were part and parcel of it and were commonly experienced together.

    Well it wouldn't be the sound itself, but the sound may be an indicator of what's going on. All the castle laborers have animations/waypoints set like Brother Smyth to bang their hammers on stuff. If they all play at once, it could indicate that the game is having trouble loading all that global info and processing it. This would again point to waypoints and day/night transfers as the (possible) culprit. The laborers didn't start banging until the same time as jerkstop arrived. I'm still not quite sue how that would translate into movement completion issues, except that the game internally considers an animation like that a form of waypoint. Waypoints are more typically seen as the routes NPCs walk around town and what have you. The laborers don't have walking-realted waypoints per se, but they do have day/night standpoints, and under certain conditions they will attempt to walk back and forth between the labor camp and the construction site. I suppose that could be system resource intensive (possibly combined with their hammering animation-waypoints), particularly considering that it's a fairly long walk with no direct route.

    That would be a relief. Would also make sense though as crafting has always been with us.
     
  10. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

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    First, there is no jerkstop. Then after some time (level 4ish for me), I leave the Welcome Wench and the party appears in the usual location frozen in combat poses. No movement is possible. No movement commands can be given. This situation can be escaped by Worldmap movement to another location and returning. This is when I know I have a problem.

    Somewhat later, a NEW phenomena, which I named "Jerkstop" years ago, starts occasionally occurring. At first, a movement command can be issued, the blue discs appear at the destination, and the party starts moving. Then the movement abruptly stops after a moderate distance while the destination blue discs disappear. The party's movement has prematurely terminated. A new command can be issued, only to have the same result.

    I can escape this problem temporarily if I can enter a building or worldmap out, and then return. Then, at first at least, I can move normally.

    The phenomena is usually locallized in certain areas of Homlett: near the WW intersection, the Guard Captain / Woodcutter area and the initial appearrance area in the south, but not always.

    When Jerkstop is occurring, the movement is normal and smooth, then prematurely terminates. The avatar postures are normal throughout. It reminds me of the vanilla problem at the Moathouse when the Giant Frog combat is not triggering while you are moving from the arrival spot. Movement just stops, but no combat.

    As it gets worse, the movement distances get shorter, to immobility, and the occurrence is more frequent. The game is now unplayable (usually around levels 8/10).

    There are no additional components to this problem as far as I know. It may be appearing in this form in other places. I've never had it in Nulb. I've never been able to get the WotGS to trigger. I have definitely had movement problems (node lag) in other places, but not in the same time frame as Jerkstop.

    As I was trying to say in the post above, different movement problems, such as erratic movement (of a different sort) in a component of the mod that did not exist when Jerkstop first appeared, should not be lumped in with this. Of course, it MIGHT have the same cause, and it should be addressed.

    My concern was your phrase "no herky-jerky starts and stops kind". It seemed to imply there was a third kind of phenomena.

    Just because someone mentions the word Jerkstop in another context doesn't mean it is occurring.
     
  11. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Thanks, GA82. I guess part of the issue here is that not everybody considers jerkstop to be precisely as you describe above, hence we get a lot of random reports of such and such thing. For example, WotGS 'jerkstop' is, as near as I can tell, most frequently described as seemingly heartbeat-related pauses and freezes related specifically to the operation of the WotGS mobs that eventually reduces game conditions to a state of unplayability. The fact that it occurs almost exclusively in the same areas as 'normal' jerkstop (WW inn area, for example) is probably not just a long coincidence and would indicate some commonality between the two issues.

    Regardless, I think we are fighting a losing battle with this approach at troubleshooting. We get far too few reports spaced out over far too much time to make it very valuable. (Admittedly, jerkstop testing is a pita because it by necessity means starting a new game with every new test in order to amass the seemingly cumulative effects needed to demonstrate its existence.) Still, I think the best approach to this is going to be implementing solution candidates with each new release and having the playing public be the testers. That means this project in its formal form here, such as it is, will probably come to a close.

    The next public release (v7.3) is going to feature most all of the mobs added to the modpack in v5.5 (primarily kids and generic citizens) removed from the Hommlet exterior map. This will cut down significantly on running scripts, animations, waypoints, and day/night transfers.

    What do you mean by this exactly - you can't get WotGS itself to occur, or you can't get jerkstop to occur during WotGS? If the former, what exactly is the issue (how far do you get, when does it appear to fail, etc.)?
     
  12. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

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    When WotGS first came out, I would do the dialog option, but the "random encounter" was always empty. I've never been able to play the game far enough in the later versions to get to it.

    In the 7.2 version, I've played the game up to the lower/earlier level of onset, and I haven't seen any sign of it. Perhaps you should delay implementing the next fix and wait for the complaints to roll in. Remember, it took years for everyone to recognise that there was a problem.

    Since the new phenomena associated with the same kinds of areas was not present originally, lets be cautious about giving it the same name. I've never had jerkstop anywhere but Hommlett, and I'm under the impression that there are different phenomena reported in other areas using the same label. Of course, I've never played long enough to trigger jerkstop in Nulb, so it may be TOTALLY appropriate to to refer to all of these things by the same label.
     
  13. FredSRichardson

    FredSRichardson Established Member

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    7.2.1NC jerk stop report

    Sorry for the bad news...

    Running 7.2.0NC plus the patch "Co8 v7.2.1 Patch.rar"

    Just started happening. My party of 4 is level 12 (no NPCs). I've cleared the Arena and the first half of temple level 4 (no nodes or central greeting area).

    I noticed Jerkstop in Hommlet after completing the Arena and picking up the moathouse respawn quest (I traveled to the south road via the signboard to talk to Kent and noticed it then).

    I have a before and after save if that helps at all.

    I have crafted items (weapons, belts).

    -Fred
     
  14. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

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    Re: 7.2.1NC jerk stop report

    Could you describe what happens when you get it?
     
  15. FredSRichardson

    FredSRichardson Established Member

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    Re: 7.2.1NC jerk stop report

    Yes. I target a place for my party to move to (blue circles on the ground), the party starts moving and almost immediately stops. Other NPC's on the screen continue to move with a briefly jerky motion.

    I have a lot of saves up to this point.

    It's interesting that only Hommlet has this problem for me. Other areas are fine (haven't gotten to the nodes yet).
     
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