Pathnode and User Interface Watchdog Thread

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Daryk, Dec 31, 2012.

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  1. BenWH

    BenWH BGPHughes

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    I think we can live with it. The only place where it is confusing is on the skill sheet - here you can't tell which attribute is giving the bonus, because it suffers the same problem. Personally I can't remember which skill uses which attribute. A workaround could be to add it to the skill description itself, so people can know.

    In addition Dagger of Venom has the default dagger short description and no long description.
     
    BenWH, Sep 27, 2013
    #91
  2. gazra_1971

    gazra_1971 Knights of Legend

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    FIXED

    The following feats have mouse-over descriptions whose text overruns the box in the GUI:

    Blind-fight
    Combat Reflexes
    Crippling Strike
    Greater Weapon Focus
    Improved Critical
    Ki Strike
    Manyshot
    Opportunist
    Power Attack
    Skill Mastery
    Spring Attack
    Stunning Fist

    2 examples below:
     

    Attached Files:

    gazra_1971, Sep 28, 2013
    #92
  3. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Resurrecting this thread as we're fleshing out the remaining missing descriptions and trying to standardize them. To that end, I've determined to limit all weapon descriptions (the talky part) to a simple statement of the weapon's size, material, what it is, and how many hands it takes to wield it (normally). This is because neither the 3.5 SRD or even Pathfinder have sensible definitions for weapons. (One will say something like "this is a sword that's 3 feet long," the next will go into a long treatise on what you can do with it but not say what it is, etc. Even the regular freaking dictionary isn't consistent.) So, ALL weapons will say just those things, in addition to all their stats, which is what I'm sure everyone wants to know anyway.

    So for example, the Rapier:

    Code:
    A medium sized metal sword that can be wielded with one hand.

To Hit Bonus: 0
Damage: 1d6
Damage Type: Piercing
Critical Range: 18-20/x2
Weapon Proficiency: Martial, Rapier
    Rapier +2

    Code:
    A medium sized metal sword that can be weilded with one hand.

Enchanted
Enhancement Bonus: +2
To Hit Bonus: +2
Damage: 1d6+2
Critical Range: 18-20/x2
Damage Type: Piercing
Weapon Proficiency: Martial, Rapier
    One caveat: if the weapon is plot specific in some way (Antonio's Mace, for example), it will still mention that.

    Opinions welcome but please no massive overhaul suggestions because it's not happening.
     
    Gaear, Jul 20, 2014
    #93
  4. edmortimer

    edmortimer Occupy Wall Street

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    Sounds good! That will fix that annoyance nicely.
     
    edmortimer, Jul 20, 2014
    #94
  5. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    If any rules lawyers, stat gurus, or general masochists would like to have a look at the current long_description.mes (attached, opens with Notepad), it would be appreciated.

    Right now only the weapons section (numbers 4000 - 4999) is considered done in that all the weapons now have descriptions as detailed above. Each entry should have the following:

    1. weapon use | 2. brief description saying what size, material, weapon type, and how many hands the weapon is

    3. various line item stats as appropriate

    I have seven weapon uses, as follows. These are to give players a basic idea of what the weapon would be good for:

    a. melee (e.g. longsword)
    b. melee/ranged (e.g. spear)
    c. ranged (e.g. dart)
    d. reach (e.g. glaive)
    e. missile, arrows (e.g. longbow)
    f. missile, bolts (e.g. crossbow)
    g. missile, bullets (e.g. sling)

    What I would like to do mainly is verify that I have the weapon uses (1) correct and the basic description (2) correct. The materials in (2) should be good as they're taken straight from protos.tab, likewise size, but I could be off on hands at times as I just kind of winged it based on my basic knowledge.

    For types of weapons, I limited it to a fairly narrow band just to keep things simple - sword, axe, pick, hammer, bow, etc. There are a few more, but I would accept suggestions on making these better. I don't want them to get too specific though, as average random player probably doesn't know what a naginata is. So we need to say "this is a polearm," not this is a thing that you don't know the meaning of to begin with but here's more details anyway."

    The line item stats (3) should already be pretty tight, but look at them and offer corrections by all means if that's your thing.

    Lastly, I'd be open to suggestions on spicing the descriptions up in limited fashion, namely in two ways:

    1. I think there may be some basic weapons where some more specifics might be helpful, like a rapier being useful for dual wieding, etc.

    2. I think some of the major magic items or very unique stuff could stand to have some fluff added, like we see with Scather and Fragarach.

    In both cases, we need to keep it limited, as there's limited space in the description box. Nothing should go any longer than the Frag and Scather descriptions.

    I do have two ranges of what I think are rather outlandish weapons that I'm not sure ever actually appear in-game - 4322-4339 ("Sahandrian," "Lifecutter") and 4417-4422 ("Thyrshadi," "Dante's Saber") that haven't been specced yet. We'll do them later I suppose.

    Please post any reviews/suggestions/corrections here. Thanks.
     

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    Gaear, Jul 22, 2014
    #95
  6. Daryk

    Daryk Veteran Member

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    Daryk, Jul 22, 2014
    #96
  7. gazra_1971

    gazra_1971 Knights of Legend

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    3. The Player's Handbook broadly categorizes weapons such as spears, slings, and bows as Ranged Weapons. If you are going to go into more depth with weapon categorization than RAW, then I recommend that

    b. melee/ranged (e.g. spear)
    c. ranged (e.g. dart)

    be replaced with either

    b. melee/thrown (e.g. spear)
    c. thrown (e.g. dart)

    or

    b. melee/throwing (e.g. spear)
    c. throwing (e.g. dart)

    or

    b. melee/throw (e.g. spear)
    c. throw (e.g. dart)

    Thrown weapons include:

    Dart
    Javelin
    Pilum
    Shortspear
    Shuriken
    Spear
    Throwing axe
    Throwing Dagger
    Trident

    Note: the Javelin can't be used as a melee weapon in the computer game ToEE (which differs from RAW).

    I recommend including the following information in all thrown weapon entries in long_description.mes:

    Your Strength modifier applies to damage rolls when you use thrown weapons.



    Reach weapons:

    Glaive
    Guisarme
    Longspear
    Ranseur
    Spiked Chain

    You can strike opponents 10 feet away while wielding a reach weapon.



    Special monk weapons (according to the computer game ToEE) (the Player's Handbook states that the following weapons that have * adjacent to them are special monk weapons, and states that nunchaku are also special monk weapons):

    Broom
    Butterfly Sword
    Dao
    * Kama
    * Quarterstaff
    Rake
    * Sai
    * Shuriken
    * Siangham
    Tonfa
    War Fan

    A monk can perform Flurry of Blows while wielding a special monk weapon.



    After examining Daryk's link above, I strongly recommend including the following important special rules affecting the following special weapons in long_description.mes (note: these special rules affect these weapons in the computer game ToEE (I have deliberately omitted all of the other RAW special rules affecting special weapons that aren't implemented in the computer game ToEE)):


    Bastard Sword

    A bastard sword is too large to use in one hand without special training; thus, it is an exotic weapon. A character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon.


    Broom

    The broom is a special monk weapon. A monk can perform Flurry of Blows while wielding this weapon.


    Butterfly Sword

    The butterfly sword is a special monk weapon. A monk can perform Flurry of Blows while wielding this weapon.


    Composite Longbow

    If your Strength bonus is less than the strength rating of the composite bow, you can't effectively use it, so you take a -2 penalty on attacks with it.
    A composite longbow can be made with a high strength rating to take advantage of an above-average Strength score; this feature allows you to add your Strength bonus to damage, up to the maximum bonus indicated for the bow.


    Composite Shortbow

    If your Strength bonus is lower than the strength rating of the composite bow, you can't effectively use it, so you take a -2 penalty on attacks with it.
    A composite shortbow can be made with a high strength rating to take advantage of an above-average Strength score; this feature allows you to add your Strength bonus to damage, up to the maximum bonus indicated for the bow.


    Dao

    The dao is a special monk weapon. A monk can perform Flurry of Blows while wielding this weapon.


    Dwarven Waraxe

    A dwarven waraxe is too large to use in one hand without special training; thus, it is an exotic weapon. A Medium character can use a dwarven waraxe two-handed as a martial weapon, or a Large creature can use it one-handed in the same way. A dwarf treats a dwarven waraxe as a martial weapon even when using it in one hand.


    Glaive

    A glaive has reach. You can strike opponents 10 feet away with it.


    Gnome Hooked Hammer

    Gnomes treat gnome hooked hammers as martial weapons.


    Guisarme

    A guisarme has reach. You can strike opponents 10 feet away with it.


    Kama

    The kama is a special monk weapon. A monk can perform Flurry of Blows while wielding this weapon.


    Longbow

    If you have a penalty for low Strength, then it is applied to damage rolls when you use a longbow.


    Longspear

    A longspear has reach. You can strike opponents 10 feet away with it.


    Quarterstaff

    The quarterstaff is a special monk weapon. A monk can perform Flurry of Blows while wielding this weapon.


    Rake

    The rake is a special monk weapon. A monk can perform Flurry of Blows while wielding this weapon.


    Ranseur

    A ranseur has reach. You can strike opponents 10 feet away with it.


    Rapier

    You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a rapier sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon for you. You can't wield a rapier in two hands in order to apply 1½ times your Strength bonus to damage.


    Shortbow

    If you have a penalty for low Strength, then it is applied to damage rolls when you use a shortbow.


    Sai

    The sai is a special monk weapon. A monk can perform Flurry of Blows while wielding this weapon.


    Shuriken

    The shuriken is a special monk weapon. A monk can perform Flurry of Blows while wielding this weapon.


    Siangham

    The siangham is a special monk weapon. A monk can perform Flurry of Blows while wielding this weapon.


    Sling

    Your Strength modifier applies to damage rolls when you use a sling.


    Spiked Chain

    A spiked chain has reach, so you can strike opponents 10 feet away with it.
    You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a spiked chain sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon for you.


    Spiked Gauntlet

    An attack with a spiked gauntlet is considered an armed attack.


    Tonfa

    The tonfa is a special monk weapon. A monk can perform Flurry of Blows while wielding this weapon.


    War Fan

    The war fan is a special monk weapon. A monk can perform Flurry of Blows while wielding this weapon.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
    gazra_1971, Jul 28, 2014
    #97
  8. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Thanks, gazra. I think we'll adopt the thrown descriptor and I've noted your list of thrown weapons. I also like the further description of the STR modifier for thrown weapons, and the 10 feet away thing for reach weapons. I think the reach list is missing several Co8 added weapons though (at least if my assumption of large and two handed = reach is correct).

    Not sure I'm on board with all the monk weapon indications, just because some of those weapons aren't only monk weapons (e.g. quarterstaff).

    I'm okay with many or most of the individual additions, although some are long-ish. Part of the idea of streamlining was to get away from exhaustive technicalities in the body part of the description, so composite bows for example look pretty daunting that way (plus the additions are probably too lengthy to fit in the box).
     
    Gaear, Jul 29, 2014
    #98
  9. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    The Monk weapon list is better suited for the Monk's help.tab entry.
     
    Sitra Achara, Aug 2, 2014
    #99
  10. Shiningted

    Shiningted The Thunder of Justice Administrator

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    Agreed. It's a valid point, Gazra, but it's also something people need before they spend good money on their weapons. There is a section under the Monk Weapon and Armour Proficiency tab in Help (pic below) that should be modified accordingly.
     

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    Shiningted, Aug 2, 2014
    #100
  11. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    A few corrections/questions ...

    There don't appear to be any throwing axes in ToEE, or any other axes that can be thrown.

    There are no pilums in ToEE.

    Most daggers can be thrown in ToEE, not just the throwing dagger.

    Is a halberd, military fork, naginata, or monk spade a reach weapon?
     
    Gaear, Aug 2, 2014
    #101
  12. Shiningted

    Shiningted The Thunder of Justice Administrator

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    See the KotB manual for discussion on the single axe. Pilums would generally be considered overpowered if they were wielded 1-handed (and thus allowed a shield) - spears are 2 handed - so a pilum would have to be a shortspear (which isn't what a pilum is). If there are no pilums, don't add them.

    The dagger (RAW) has a range of 10 feet. For memory the throwing dagger has a range of 20 feet. Which makes all the difference :)
     
    Shiningted, Aug 3, 2014
    #102
  13. gazra_1971

    gazra_1971 Knights of Legend

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    I partly disagree with you there, Sitra. From my personal experience, players want to be able to SHIFT-click an item to be able to see all of the important information about that item. I agree with you that the monk special weapon information should also be added to the monk's entry in the help menu.

    Sorry, Gaear, I don't have the Co8 Modpack activated at the moment (nor am I intending to activate it any time soon), so I was quoting items in the KotB module (and assuming that both modules had the same items, which I now realize isn't the case).

    There are Throwing Daggers and Pilums in the KotB module.

    The pilum was a special Roman javelin that was brilliantly designed so that the Roman legionaries could throw the pilum (like a javelin) at the enemy but the enemy couldn't throw it back at the Romans because the front part of the pilum bent on impact, making it non-reusable, and if the pilum got stuck in the enemy's shield, then the enemy would likely have to drop the shield due to the reduced mobility and increased weight on the shield-arm. In other words, the pilum is slightly different to a javelin.

    The only reach weapons in the Player's Handbook 3.5 are:

    Glaive
    Guisarme
    Lance
    Longspear
    Ranseur
    Spiked Chain
    Whip

    The Halberd is definitely NOT a reach weapon.

    The Military Fork, Naginata, and Monk Spade are not in the Player's Handbook 3.5, so I can't comment on whether they are reach weapons or not.

    The Player's Handbook 3.5 states that the following weapons can be thrown (Range Increment in parentheses):

    Bolas (10 ft)
    Club (10 ft)
    Dagger (10 ft)
    Dart (20 ft)
    Javelin (30 ft)
    Light Hammer (20 ft)
    Net (10 ft)
    Sai (10 ft)
    Shortspear (20 ft)
    Shuriken (10 ft)
    Spear (20 ft)
    Throwing Axe (10 ft)
    Trident (10 ft)

    As Daryk posted earlier in this thread, all of the information on weapons from the Player's Handbook 3.5 is available to view online at the following link:

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm

    Tomorrow, I will test which weapons can be thrown in the KotB module, and then report any differences from RAW, unless you report your findings beforehand.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2014
    gazra_1971, Aug 3, 2014
    #103
  14. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Thanks, I tested them and none of them are.

    Could we simply use the "Your Strength modifier applies to damage rolls when you use ..." for composite bows?

    edit

    Looking at the Monk's Help entry, I see all the special monk weapons were already listed there under the Flurry of Blows topic, but I added them to the Weapon and Armor Proficiency Monk section as well. (I also added the special ToEE special monk weapons - broom, rake, etc.)
     
    Gaear, Aug 3, 2014
    #104
  15. Shiningted

    Shiningted The Thunder of Justice Administrator

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    I stand corrected on the pilum - I was thinking of a melee weapon (since the heavier version could be used as such). But again, if it is not in ToEE, don't add it.
     
    Shiningted, Aug 4, 2014
    #105
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