Our installation situation is a disaster - the saga of Co8 4.0.0

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by Gaear, Sep 18, 2005.

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  1. Agetian

    Agetian Attorney General Administrator

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    Working on it now. Thanks for suggesting.
    We'll see about the PC Count Patcher, too.

    Ahh, that sounds better. ;)
    - Agetian
     
  2. Agetian

    Agetian Attorney General Administrator

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    @ Everyone: I just added support for Humble NPCs and an integrated PC count patcher into Toffee and I have sent a new version to Shiningted for testing. If he doesn't encounter any problems with it, I'll make it an official release and Cerulean will be able to include the new version of Toffee in the Co8 4.0.0 pack. (Am I right that Cerulean makes the installation package?...... Sorry, I'm a little confused since I don't spend that much time at Co8 right now :( )

    - Agetian
     
  3. Morpheus

    Morpheus Mindflayer Veteran

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    Neat. So, is it officially called Toffee now? What does the new acronym stand for? "The Omnipotent Frontend For Elemental Evildoers"? ;)
     
  4. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    If I'm not mistaken, Cerulean is assembling, documenting, and sending everything to Morpheus, who will create the installer.


    Re: Humble NPCs . . .

    I've been pondering this a bit lately. It seems that:

    1. Liv never fixed any NPCs outside of Hommlet with her "I need you to sell your items to me/don't sell anything else" fix in her mod. She was going to fix the rest in 2.0, but . . .
    2. Liv 1.5.1 is what we're stuck with right now and probably forever.
    3. Unless anyone feels that Troika's original NPC implimentation is okay, or Co8's loot-only-money fix is sufficient, all NPCs outside of Hommlet are still broken. i.e., Otis still joins overburdened, etc.
    4. No one to my knowledge has been able to report any dire consequences of using Humble NPCs with Liv's mod. She indicated that there would be issues, but I suspect what's really going on was her feelings were hurt because she put so much time and effort into fixing NPCs her way, which was the only way at the time.

    If all this is true (and maybe its not), why don't we make Humble NPCs standard? It would have been great if Troika had implemented NPCs the way they seem to have wanted to, but the fact is they didn't.

    What does everyone think?
     
  5. Agetian

    Agetian Attorney General Administrator

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    @ Gaear: I'd say that an option in Toffee would be more appropriate. Still, some people may want to play the game in a more classic way, and Humble NPCs patch actually changes the way game acts. I agree that it changes it for the better, but anyway - for example, I play a lot without the Humble NPC patch (yeah, call me a freak, but that's me). So... I think it's a good thing to include as a Toffee option (which I already did, still waiting for Ted's approval), in fact - everyone who wants it will be able to mark the appropriate checkbox and play with Humble NPCs. Everyone who doesn't want it won't have to look around for a way to revert it back so that Humble NPCs are disabled (they just have to uncheck the appropriate checkbox). That's only my opinion, but it seems reasonable enough.

    @ Morpheus: Well, 'Toffee' is more of a slang name for it, but I actually used it in the new version in the about box ('About Toffee Pro'). I kind of like the name, it's also easier to pronounce. Your acronym sounds kinda good, too. :D

    - Agetian
     
  6. wizgeorge

    wizgeorge Prophet of Wizardy

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    I just finished Liv1.5.1 with Drifters mods and I couldn't tell if it changed anything. Drifters mods are the best improvements I've seen. If something works good, people will use it. I don't understand what all the debate is about. Put it in your ToEE folder and use it if you want or don't use it.
     
  7. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    well I do own 2 liverpool jerseys (given to me) and do know someone who played for one of there lower grades afew years ago, but normally I suport the gunners even tho I'm on the otherside of the planet
     
  8. Lord_Spike

    Lord_Spike Senior Member Veteran

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    Using the Liv method, couldn't someone else mod the rest of the NPC's? Or is this too big a job? I never use them anymore, so it machts nichts to me. But there could be an even better fix, I suppose, as yet undiscovered. Surely, there's enough brainpower here to attempt some kind of solution that pleases the majority...

    Freak! :D
     
  9. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    I'm the first to say it should be included as an option, but I have to confess I wouldn't want it to be an automatic standard. I've never used it that I can remember. Having NPCs who loot their share of gold is a part of roleplaying imho. Heck I even load up my NPCs with crap like boots and rusty swords in the happy knowledge they will offload them at the first merchant we encounter without me having to lift a finger, and if they fall later in the game I can just help myself to their purse - its like their own little 'resurrection fund'. Anyways, thats just me. I am happy to bow to the wishes of the majority. And if someone could fix Otis' inventory, that would be sweet.
    I don't know there are any, you just don't get the 'full dialogue benefits' of using that chunk of dialogue. I have never noticed anything in the .dlg files, but then I tend to skip those bits since they look pretty copy-n-pasted.
     
  10. Cerulean the Blue

    Cerulean the Blue Blue Meanie Veteran

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    @Agetian: One of my goals with this project, and one that I take very seriously, is to document all changes and inclusions, and where ever possible give full credit to those responsible. You and the others who worked so long and hard on Toffee and ToEEWB deserve full credit (and scores of screaming fangirls throwing themselves at you) for your work and perserverence. Any Modding Tools Package I create will include the full version of ToEEWB as you have posted it on this forum, with no changes or ommisions.

    @ShingingTed: I don't see any issue with the Modding Tools Package. We have Agetian permission, and Zane and Phalzyr posted there work here for any and all to download. We will not be changing anything, we will not be distributing this anywhere other than Co8, and full credit will be given. I even think we should leave these programs available as individual downloads. My idea is to also have them available as one download. They will still have to be installed/used individually.

    In reguards to Humble NPCs, I say leave it as an option available from Toffee. I think it would even be nice to have a choice between the original games looting, the loot-only-gold and Humble NPCs, though I have no idea if that is even possible
     
  11. Old Book

    Old Book Established Member

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    Re: Humble NPCs

    I don't mind NPC looting of gold at all. It's the shop script that kills my enjoyment of NPCs. I like stocking an NPC with scrolls and magic items; if that NPC sells those expensive items off, my party is out the gold and XP that went into manufacturing them. Liv's fix does sometimes work, but I ran into situations where the dialog failed to mark items as "do not sell". Also, I like to quickly swap inventory items around in my party, especially when I go into town to visit a merchant.

    I think it should be optional, but I see it as an improvement much more than a cheat.
     
  12. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    Well, I suppose leaving it as an option is okay, for all the reasons those who've responded have listed. It just seems goofy that we're preserving something that was never right in the first place. :shrug:

    I do like Spike and Ted's idea of modding the rest of the NPCs - if not Liv's way, then at least in such a way as to make them carry a normal load to begin with.

    George, the debate is about putting together an intelligent and cohesive Co8 mod . . . something you've been asking for for a long time.
     
  13. Agetian

    Agetian Attorney General Administrator

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    Great work, Cerulean!
    By the way, I'd like to say that if Toffee 3.1 is released (with Humble NPC support and all), which is likely to happen today or tomorrow (as soon as Shiningted gives it a go and says that there are no critical problems with it), you can include Toffee 3.1 Pro *instead* of the older Toffee 3.0a1 Pro that is included in the original ToEEWB package. That will be a lot better. I'll probably work on integrating the recent v1.7.1 patch and Toffee 3.1 Pro into a single ToEEWB installation package as well, so if I release that you'll be able to use that installation package as a base for your Modding Tools Package.

    - Agetian
     
  14. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    Still testing, but no problems so far.

    Except damn Cuthbert. I tried practically filling his inventory with different armours, I tried creating the armour in his inventory from his heartbeat file after he has spawned, but he still shows up naked! Nothing in my mod fiddles with him (and nothing of Cujo's touches his armour to my knowledge) so I have no idea why it is happening.
     
  15. Agetian

    Agetian Attorney General Administrator

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    Re: Our installation situation is a disaster

    Cool! Let me know once you're done.

    Hmm... If you PM or MSN me an overview of the problem I will be willing to look into this, too.
    - Agetian
     
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