Nodes slowdown issue: thoughts and conclusions

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by Agetian, Nov 6, 2006.

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  1. WinstonShnozwick

    WinstonShnozwick Established Member

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    I don't recall having lag in the water node from my experience, except possibly on the very edges where you go to ice peninsulas there.

    In the earth nodes, some of the tighter corridors are laggy, and usually freeze me if I move the screen fast while my party is moving, or if I have my party move too far at once. IE short movements are less laggy than sending your party all across the node in one click.

    Fire node is pretty similar to what Gazra said, especially the right polygon area. Also, near the fire toads a bit.

    Air node is laggy too on some of the tighter paths, like the bridge(s). And near the air elementals.
     
    WinstonShnozwick, Aug 12, 2011
    #46
  2. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Pathnodes and sectoring have had their day in the sun as suspects, but they were found not (particularly) responsible, like everything else. Pretty much the only thing that hasn't been ruled out, to my knowledge, is the particle effect system.
     
    Gaear, Aug 12, 2011
    #47
  3. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    I've started some specific testing of particle system bearing mobs in the fire node. Here are my initial findings:

    • Noble Salamanders (9) - no
    • Fire Snake (4) - no
    • Efreeti (4) (2 concealed) - maybe
    • Fire Toad (3) - no
    • Fire Elemental (2) - maybe
    • Balor and sword (2) - maybe
    I did this by turning all the mobs off and then turning them back on successively by type, keeping the 'nos' on and turning possible offenders back off.

    The only other mobs in there are Darley, 5 bodaks, and a few items.

    I think we could altar potentially offending mobs via the text file in their art/meshes entries that lists stuff like 'Mon-Efreet-Eyes35' for various animations.
     
    Gaear, Sep 18, 2011
    #48
  4. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    I had always thought the heat special effects, or visuals were the cause.
     
    sirchet, Sep 19, 2011
    #49
  5. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    If you mean the fire/heat effects on the mobs (the balor, fire elementals), that's the current theory. If you mean the global lighting (like the lava effects in the fire node), that's already been shown to not be the culprit.

    Interestingly, two of the possible offenders above have similar particle fire effects - the balor and fire elementals. Still, this process will have to be carried out independantly on all affected maps, as they generally don't share mob types.

    Even if we isolate the mobs with the offending particle systems, the question is still what do we do with them exactly.
     
    Gaear, Sep 19, 2011
    #50
  6. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    I was thinking if we knew exactly what caused the slow downs, we might have a better chance at avoiding the recreation of these problems in future mods and add-ons.

    And yes, I use the word "we" freely, when I have yet to contribute any mods for TOEE
     
    sirchet, Sep 20, 2011
    #51
  7. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    As far as I know, Co8 hasn't created any particularly laggy maps. (Jerkstop on the other hand ... ;))
     
    Gaear, Sep 20, 2011
    #52
  8. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    FIRE NODE TEST #1

    Okay, need a brave tester or two here. I have isolated the efreeti as the most likely culprit for particle system slowdowns in the fire node. (Note this is on my system only. Lag testing is famous for manifesting itself in different ways on different systems, so I fully expect that this 'fix' will be shot down, but this is the only way we can eliminate possibilities.) Basically, when I have the efreeti on with all their particle effects, I get little hiccups when I scroll up their way (in the NE). When they're not there, I don't. Even the balor and fire elementals didn't trouble me most recently (which actually makes me dubious but meh).

    So, what I've done here is essentially turned off all particle effects for the efreeti by breaking the references in their .ska (meshes) file. To aid in testing, I have also removed the KOS flag from all monsters on the map and disabled the balor's heartbeat script so that he doesn't auto talk to you when you get close. Also, Darley and the Bodaks are turned off, as they don't figure in this (being particle effect free).

    So, your task is simple. Just extract the attached .rar to your ToEE root directory, launch the game, make a party, start a game, and do this:

    1. open the console
    2. type from t import * and press enter
    3. type tp(5083,505,495) and press enter
    4. close the console
    That will put you at the center landing point of the fire node. Save your game so you don't have to do that console stuff over again, and then start running around and tell me what happens. (Also enjoy the friendly citizenship of your new fire-node buddies. ;))

    Thanks.
     

    Attached Files:

    Gaear, Sep 20, 2011
    #53
  9. gazra_1971

    gazra_1971 Knights of Legend

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    I tested this also and experienced what you experienced, Sitra, except I only experienced lockups lasting for a few seconds at most.

    Okay, I did a fresh install of The Temple of Elemental Evil, then installed and activated The Circle of Eight Modpack 6.1.0 NC, then did everything in post #53 of this thread.

    While using the game's maximum widescreen resolution of 1680x1050, I experienced no slowing down of frame rates or lockups (hangs) whatsoever when running my 3 pregenerated PCs around the Fire Node while frantically scrolling the screen around at the same time except for a momentary slight slowing down of frame rates (or a "hiccup" as Gaear would call it on his computer) when my characters were running for the first time next to the portal that teleports the party to the Earth Node. However, after my characters had explored all of the land in the Fire Node, I experienced no further hiccups the 2 subsequent times that I ran my characters past the portal that teleports the party to the Earth Temple.

    When I initiated combat by pressing the C key and then attacked the 2 Efreeti in the upper right area (as well as the Fire Toads), I experienced no slowing down of frame rates or lockups (hangs) at all.

    Congratulations, Gaear! Whatever you have done to the files in post #53 of this thread has eliminated slow frame rates and lockups (hangs) in the Fire Node!
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
    gazra_1971, Sep 22, 2011
    #54
  10. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Cool - thanks for testing, gazra. It would be nice if one of two other people could try it as well.

    I suppose this (preliminarily) narrows it down to either the efreeti particle effects, or the KOS flag being disabled for mobs. Or both. The latter might actually make sense too, given as I assume KOS runs off a heartbeat and would mean that the mob is constantly 'looking' for you. Regardless, I think the thing to do now is to test with KOS flags re-enabled and the efreeti particle effects still off, and vice-versa. I'll put that set of files up later.
     
    Gaear, Sep 22, 2011
    #55
  11. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    FIRE NODE TEST #2

    Alright, testing with Efreeti particle effects re-enabled will be easy. Just do the following:

    • navigate to your ToEE/data/art/meshes/Monsters/Efreet folder
    • delete all the contents there (5 files)
    • test
    That's it! Let me know what happens ...
     
    Gaear, Sep 23, 2011
    #56
  12. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    Here are my results, testing with a 3 PC party, using the altered (KOS-less) MOB files, FoW turned on:

    1. With the altered SKA file: no lags at all in the Fire Node.
    2. Without the altered SKA file: sometimes I get freezeups that last 0.5-2 seconds near the Efreeti.

    Tested it a couple times with each configuration, going back and forth.

    Never managed to replicate the minute-long freezeups I've had in the past, so perhaps the KOS "seek sequence" contributes as well (might explain why walking around invisible helps).
    But, since the removal of the animation eliminated even the small freezes, it seems like it might solve the problem. The ultimate test, however, will be with a real game, KOS enabled...

    BTW, one odd phenomenon I've observed - playing the node again, even after quitting the game, tends to reduce the severity of the slowdowns, and sometimes they even dispappear completely. But then again test sessions usually last 1 minute or so.
    Thus, I suspect it's best to test after a reboot.

    Next thing we should test is the Earth Node, which in my experience suffers from slowdown s about as bad as the Fire Node. The likely culprits, from my turn-off-turn-on testing, are the Gorgons (which also have the Monster Eye particles) and Earth Elementals (there's a couple, one concealed and the other not).


    All in all, I'm really hopeful that we'll finally nail this sucker :)
     
    Sitra Achara, Sep 23, 2011
    #57
  13. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    FIRE NODE TEST #3

    I've noticed that replay effect on lag as well. Being no guru, I would guess it's simply a matter of data being loaded and stored the first time, meaning it doesn't have to be done the second time?

    Anyway, yeah I was planning on the earth node next, but first, here's the KOS enabled files with efreet particle effects still disabled (also the balor's heartbeat is back on).

    Same instructions as before.

    (Oh, and I agree - things are looking hopeful.) :)

    p.s. - gazra and any other would-be testers, it would be best if you tested Fire Node Test #2 before this one, just so we're all on the same page.


    [edit] - I should mention .... being as the fire node enemies will be hostile again, you may want to use SA's t() command in order to give yourself a competent party so they don't get killed right off the bat.

    - start a game
    - enter from t import * in the console
    - enter t() in the console

    This will make you powerful and send you to Hommlet. After that, do the console commands listed in the Fire Node #1 post.
     

    Attached Files:

    Gaear, Sep 23, 2011
    #58
  14. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    I've tested it (#3) - I do get minor hiccups that last about 0.5sec, but no more than that.

    To other testers - you should also type:
    Code:
    [COLOR="Red"]uberizemajor()[/COLOR]
    To give yourself an extra boost.
    Also, you can teleport to the Fire Node by typing firenode() too.

    Lastly, I think the Efreeti look weird without their particles ("look, ma! a flying amputee!"). Perhaps it's better to conceal them instead of disabling their particles completely? Or better yet, something along the lines of what the module says:
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 24, 2011
    Sitra Achara, Sep 24, 2011
    #59
  15. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    Here are files for making the Efreeti Concealed. From my testing it solves the long freezes (~10-12 secs near the Efreeti, in my case), without the altered SKA file.

    As I said there are still hiccups here and there (usually near the Fire Toads), but nothing too serious (0.5-1 sec).

    Also, I think we can forego the elaborate Efreeti scenario.
    Previsouly, I had thought that concealing them would nullify any interest the player might have had in that area, which would have meant the player might have missed on the Efreeti. But, there's a portal to the Air Node, so that's not true - so we can make them concealed without a worry.
    That is, unless someone wants to do it anyway ;)
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 24, 2011
    Sitra Achara, Sep 24, 2011
    #60
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