Nodes slowdown issue: thoughts and conclusions

Well it might be that the level 2 fire temple and the nodes are two different issues. I lag up bad in the level 2 fire area, but I am typically fine in the nodes.

 

Has anybody actually tried checking system specs in regards to this? Maybe some people are having such horrible problems because their computer just isn't beefy enough to run all the crap going on in a node at once?

I have the urge to install ToEE again and check this out myself, since I have a big, manly-man of a PC now.

Oh, and, HI GUYS! Long time no see! What's up, how's it goin', and [insert other informal colloquial greeting here]!

 

I wish I could say I'm back for good, but I have a sporadic attention span. But, for the time being, I'm at your disposal.

The node issue is one that's bothered me for a while, so it's pretty much the one thing I really want to look into (besides checking out the KotB demo, and maybe help out a bit if I can.)

 

When I played 5.8.1 NC and 5.9.2 NC and 6.0.1 NC, I experienced the following:

I experienced very slow frame rates while moving my party along the U-shaped corridor surrounding the Earth Temple (however, this area ran fine in 5.9.2 NC), and sometimes when moving my party along the corridors in between the Air Temple and Water Temple (I only experiened this while playing 5.9.2 NC. That area ran fine in 5.8.1 NC). I experienced temporary lockups (lasting a few seconds) when moving my party within the Fire Temple room where the Flamebrothers and the 2 Noble Salamanders are (both in 5.8.1 NC and 5.9.2 NC), and when moving my party along the long corridor just above the Water Temple and Air Temple (where the Ogres and Ogre Shaman are) (I only experienced this while playing 5.9.2 NC. That area ran fine in 5.8.1 NC). I played the game at maximum graphical settings (including maximum pixel resolution) (except I left the rate that Fog is calculated at the default setting). After I killed all of the mobs in these areas, I no longer experienced ANY slowdown of frame rates or lockups in these areas, which implies that the slow frame rates and lockups are caused by something to do with one or more of the mobs in these areas.

While playing 5.9.2 NC, I experienced lockups in the Earth Node, Air Node, and Fire Node. The lockups were temporary in the Earth Node and Air Node, and the game would resume normally after the game had freezed for approximately 30 seconds to 2 minutes. The game locked up permanetly in the Fire Node (if it wasn't permanent, then the lockup was for at least 10 minutes, and I couldn't be bothered waiting any longer for the game to resume normally), so whatever is causing the lockups in these 3 Elemental Nodes is most prevalent in (and causes the worst lockups in) the Fire Node. I played the game at maximum graphical settings (including maximum pixel resolution) (except I left the rate that Fog is calculated at the default setting). After I killed all of the mobs in these areas, I believe that I no longer experienced ANY lockups in these 3 Elemental Nodes, which implies that it is something to do with one or more of the mobs in these 3 Elemental Nodes that is causing the lockups (Gaear verified this when he tested the Earth Node, bit by bit (see post #22 in this thread)). The Water Node works just fine and is free of any lockups or slow frame rates.

I found out that graphics settings have no effect on lockups in the Fire Node what-so-ever! I get fatal operating system-crashing lockups just as badly and as often while playing the game with the minimum graphics settings as I do playing the game at near maximum graphics settings. I also found out with 100% certainty that it IS the mobs that are causing the lockups (and not the maps). As soon as I killed the last mob in the Fire Node (in this particular case, it was the 2 Efreeti in the upper right area), I no longer had ANY problems with lockups or slow frame rates when scrolling around the map (this was while I was clearing out the Fire Node at near maximum graphics settings).

I think that the slowdowns/lockups are caused by specific mobs (I'm guessing Noble Salamanders, Flamebrothers, Fire Elementals, Efreeti, Earth Elementals, Air Elementals, etc.), not just any type of mob. Notice how lag is only prevalent in the Earth Temple, Fire Temple, Greater Temple, Earth Node, Air Node, and Fire Node. Well, in all of those places, there is at least one Noble Salamander or Fire Elemental or Earth Elemental or Air Elemental. As soon as the player kills these monsters, the slowdowns/lockups seem to cease.

I hope this information helps the Co8 team track down and eliminate the slow frame rates and lockups in the problem areas of the game.

Will the Co8 team please ask Atari and/or Troika for the source code for the Temple of Elemental Evil so that the Co8 team will then be able to completely debug the game, make all aspects of the game comply to the D&D 3.5 game rules, and improve functionality of (and expand game content of) the game to the Co8 team's content? Surely it would be in Atari's and Troika's best interest for the Co8 team to improve the game now that it is being sold as a digital download at GOG (especially considering that the Co8 team are doing all of this good work for free)?

My computer's specifications:
Windows XP SP3
Intel Core i7 920 (2.66 GHz)
3.25 GB DDR3 RAM
Sapphire Radeon HD 4770 (512 MB DDR5 RAM)

 

Heh, there was a campaign of sorts for the source code way back, after Troika's demise. Nothing much came of it. The GOG release did make me wonder if it's more likely now.

Although, nowadays, I'm not sure we could even make use of it. The hard core programmers are long gone / inactive. But I suppose if you build it, they will come

 

I might take a crack at it if it were released. Hacking DLLs isn't really within the realm of my expertise, but it's possible I could do something with the source code. And so much stuff in this game is hard coded, it's hard to do anything novel without invoking the above.

I don't think it's going to happen, though.

 

Is anyone aware of any precedents where a large company/publisher like Atari has allowed the release of the source code for a relatively recent title like ToEE? Particularly, for a game with a big-name IP?

 

Jagged Alliance 2? I'm not sure that quite meets your criteria, though.

 

An interesting observation:

While running around with my whole party invisible, I had 0 slowdowns, in any node (including Fire and Earth), despite runnign at maximum graphical settings, and without killing anything at all.

Can anyone else replicate/confirm this? (you can give yourself a ring of invis by console -> give 6088)

 

Normally when I try to clear out the Earth, Air, & Fire Nodes, I experience sporadic & very choppy (slow) frame rates & sporadic temporary lockups (lasting from anywhere between 30 seconds to up to 10 minutes) & occasional fatal lockups (requiring a system reboot). However, once I have killed all of the mobs in the Fire Node, my party NEVER experiences any choppy (slow) frame rates or lockups in the Fire Node thereafter.

Following Sitra Achara's request, in version 6.0.1 NC, I gave all of my party's characters (3 PCs & the NPCs Meleny, Pishella, Serena, Riana, & Zaxis) a Ring of Invisibility, went to the Fire Node (it was their first time in the Fire Node), made them all invisible & ran all around the Fire Node (at the game's maximum widescreen resolution of 1680x1050). I only experienced slightly choppy (lower) frame rates when moving my party within the areas within the green polygons in the screenshot below (in other words, I experienced NO slowing down of frame rates while moving my party or scrolling the screen anywhere OUTSIDE the green polygons). The slowing down of frame rates was worst when running my party's characters around (or scrolling the screen) where the Fire Snakes & Large Fire Elementals are in the area just to the right of where the player's characters enter the Fire Node. Once I had revealed all of the undiscovered land in the Fire Node, I made one of my characters visible to a monster & immediately started experiencing sporadic choppy (low) frame rates everywhere around the Fire Node (though the effect was MUCH better than I usually experience in the Fire Node normally). In fact, I would say that clearing out the Fire Node this way was a pleasure as it was hassle-free for me. I experienced NO lockups at all! I did notice that the choppy frame rates seemed to occur randomly. Clearly, uncovering all of the undiscovered land in the Fire Node while your party is invisible before you begin fighting monsters in the Fire Node is the best way to clear out the Fire Node (of monsters) because it makes the game playable this way.



I suspect that the slow frame rates & lockups might have something to do with the fog of war &/or Fire Snakes &/or Large Fire Elementals in the area just to the right of where the player's characters enter the Fire Node.

My computer's specifications:
Windows XP SP3
Intel Core i7 920 (2.66 GHz) processor
3.25 GB RAM
Sapphire Radeon HD 4770 graphics card (512 MB memory)
Gigabyte motherboard (Intel X58 chipset)

 

Thanks for testing, gazra.

I myself have tested with fog disabled. It didn't help any, in fact it seems to override the benefit granted by exploring with invisibility first. (I've experienced lock ups up to 1 minute or so in the Fire Node with FoW disabled).

If anyone else wants to test nodes with FoW disabled, extract the attached file to modules\ToEE\rules.

Anyway, it seems that the mobs with particles are to blame.
It all makes sense to me. The only other place I've experienced such lag is in the Temple's 4th level, near Senshock's room and the fungi/bouncy balls north of Hedrack, which indeed have particle systems.

In the rest of the places where there are particle bearing mobs (e.g. Air Temple altar, Fire Temple salamanders, Earth Temple Elementals) it seems that the problem doesn't manifest itself, probably because they are concealed. That probably prevents the issue with particles spawning out of view - in those cases, the particles only spawn when you are close enough for them to see you, thus they spawn particles within the game view.

This brings up 2 possible solutions:
1. Set all particle-bearing Node monsters to 'concealed' status.
2. Create duplicate models without particle systems and replace the Node monsters with them.

I reckon 1. is preferable, because otherwise they'll look like crap. Need to do some testing...