Need help fixing 2 useless characters (Bard & Cleric)

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by blackjack, Oct 18, 2012.

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  1. Gehennis

    Gehennis Established Member

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    Depending on how you play your party's alignment, don't forget to do the Hommlett quests as well as Nulb. By the time I start the Temple proper my party is usually 7-8th level, depending on what I have them do...
     
  2. Goshi3156

    Goshi3156 Dire Badger

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    So high level... O_O

    Those poor cubes, goblins, ogres and harpies on the first floor probably never stood a chance =(
     
  3. nyarlathotep

    nyarlathotep Merry Murder Maniac

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    bab stands for base attack bonus, ie the bonus you get from your class levels. The warrior types have an increase of +1 @ every level, the rogue-types & cleric-types get it every +\-2 lvls, while the wizards & sorcerors have an increse every +\-3 lvls.

    I find clerics & druids make for the best (wondrous item) crafters because of their vast (automatic) knowledge of spells. For enchanting your Arms & Armour, you can use your wizzy so that your cleric doesn't loose too much xp.

    On encumbrance: their are 3 indicators. Silver, gold & red. While silver doesn't give any real change, golden encumbrance will harm your speed in combat. Red will - apart from speed- also harm your bab.

    " SA for the ability gain at ever 4th level..." I think he meant to write "As for the..."

    What you should keep in mind for your bard is this, the bard is a generalist. He knows from everything a bit, but he will never truly shine in anything... with 1 exception: the bard is the ultimate buffbitch. Just his song alone gives a +1 MORALE bonus to damage, attack bonus & saves against fear & charm spells. This means that it will stack with things like bulls strength, as that's not a morale based bonus.
     
  4. blackjack

    blackjack Member

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    Since I'm getting all this great information I'm gonna ask about another character. This one is my current MVP
    Half_Orc
    R2/F2
    Spike Chain
    S20
    D16
    C16
    I13
    W12
    C8

    Feats: Combat Reflex, EWP Spiked Chain, Power Atk, Cleave

    Two main questions about him-
    1) What should his level progression be from here? What should my cap be on Rogue or Fighter? He is my trap, Hide, locks guy.
    2) What type of Armor should he wear? I don't want to gimp him with armor but what is the max armor I can shoot for?
     
  5. Nightcanon

    Nightcanon Garrulous Halfling

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    With half-orc, you'll run into XP penalties multiclassing rog/ftr unless you keep them within 2 levels of each other. IIRC that actually means in ToEE that if you go to say, ftr4,rog2 you'll lose XP until you gain another rog level. I'd therefore aim for a ftr 9/ rog 11 split (gives a finishing BAB of 16, and potential of 4 attacks, with 6d6 sneak attack bonus, and whatever special 10th level rogue feat you want, compared with BAB 17 and 5d6 sneak attack. Would need to look at number of feats to see if any difference there). I'd go rog next for the extra sneak d6, then 2 levels of ftr for weapon specialisation, and altrnate from there. Armour depends on how much running around/tumbling you want to do: you don't need quite as much mobility with the reach of a chain, on the other hand you have a dex bonus to AC you may as well use. Another candidate for elven chain in the long term, I'd experiment with medium (chain shirts etc) to see what goes best for now.
    For lock picking, he can always take armour off; in ToEE, invisibility seems to be infallible as a way of moving undetected should you need to do so.
     
  6. Pygmy

    Pygmy Established Member Supporter

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    Unfortunately - if you allow your half-orcs levels as rogue and fighter to become two or more levels apart you will suffer a 20% experience penalty as long as the situation persists. Each race has a "favoured class" that isn't counted for penalty purposes. The favoured class for half-orc is barbarian - so a half-orc R2-F4 suffers a penalty while a half-orc Barb1-Rogue19 does not.
     
  7. Daryk

    Daryk Veteran Member

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    I didn't see anyone answer your question about selling gems and jewelry, so here goes:
    There's a jeweler in Hommlet across the street from the traders who will give you full price. There's also a "bank" in Verbobonc that will give you full price.
     
  8. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

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    On the halforc, I'd go to level 4 on fighter to get weapon specialization in the SC, then go on in rogue for the extra sneak attack damage. With a 16 DEX, I'd put him in a chain shirt or a breastplate. And for some real fun, have someone cast Enlarge on him. If fact, have that person take the Craft Wands feat, and make Enlarge wands, the bard can use it on him so the cleric or wizard can get off an attack spell. With the spiked chain's reach, and an Enlarged character, with Combat Reflexes, he will hit just about anyone moving on the battlefield.
     
  9. Gehennis

    Gehennis Established Member

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    Actually, I tend to go to thru the broken tower's secret door down to the level where the Golden Skull is and get that first...:)
     
  10. blackjack

    blackjack Member

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    Useless update!

    Just hit L7 and the Bard is doing really well and I can't imagine life without her.

    The Healing:Cleric 5/ Fighter 2 is slowly coming up to speed but I guess the F2 levels really slowed his growth. I do have a question. His Half Plate armor really lowers his ability to heal without getting AoO'd in the process.

    The Goal for this character is to TANK and HEAL. Currently he isn't very good at either. Any suggestions to help with either or both? Also what can I do to allow him to move about healing without taking so much damage in the process? Is there a good way to have him move safely prior to a heal?
     
  11. Gehennis

    Gehennis Established Member

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    1- wear elven armor
    2- invest in Tumble- even with heavy armor a high Dex and some buffs like Gloves of Dexterity will help
    3- get Dodge as a feat and try for Mobility
    4- take a 5 foot step first- it might help
     
  12. Nightcanon

    Nightcanon Garrulous Halfling

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    Short of drawing out Attacks of opportunity by moving other characters through threatened areas first (or doing so with your cleric before trying to cast a spell, which at least saves the risk of the spell being disrupted) , not much. In the temple you can do tacical stuff like standing in doorways with your fighters to block the bad guys in, with healers just behind keeping them going and a wizard tossing fireballs over the top.
    It's also rumoured that scrolls +/- wands don't provoke AoOs- I've not really used scrolls myself before, and don't really remember about wands. A bit 'exploity' though (more so with scrolls).
     
  13. Goshi3156

    Goshi3156 Dire Badger

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    A cleric that isn't good at healing or tanking? The end of the world has come upon us! Fire shall rain from the skies and blot out the sun!

    Move towards your target first before picking the spell you want. Remember you can hold down the Alt key to manually map out the path you want your toon to move. As for the tanking, make sure the armor your Cleric has equipped makes the most use out of his DEX bonus (If he has any). If he has no DEX bonus, giving him a Tower Shield will give him a good boost to his AC. Wooden Tower Shields can be bought from Hommlet's Cabinet Maker (After doing the Deklo Wood quest). Metal Tower Shields can be bought from Brother Smyth after giving him the head of a Hill Giant. You can get a unique Tower Shield from one of the NC quests (
    From the Arena of Heroes
    ).

    Unlike PnP, Tower Shields do not give you a -2 to Attack Rolls. ... At least, not yet. Maybe the later versions of the mod might implement it, who knows?
     
  14. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

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    Another thought: In the real world, formation is critical. Move your guys so that they stay close enough to support each other. Nothing can move between them without getting hit. The cleric should operate behind this line. If he is surrounded, he will take a beating while moving or casting.

    Tanks don't heal. Their job is to absorb a beating. This means casting gets interrupted. If you need him in the front line (understandable), have him 5-step back to cast.
     
  15. Goshi3156

    Goshi3156 Dire Badger

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    What about Concentration and Combat Casting? You can cast defensively in ToEE to prevent AoOs. They're pretty important to have on a Cleric as well since some of their better spells (Like Harm or Slay Living) are touch based.
     
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