My second run of TOEE, trying to beat a time, and selfimposed rules.

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Waterd103, Jul 7, 2009.

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  1. dolio

    dolio Established Member

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    Well, it's conceivable, but I doubt I'd accomplish it. As I recall, he's in a small room, with a couple other guys, and they're all hostile, so you'd have to do it completely unseen. I'm pretty sure the stealth path is to somehow avoid them entirely (there are a couple options there), and pick the lock, but there's no way to do the latter unless your main character has the skills. It's of course possible I missed something, though.

    It was actually more jarring than I described, because earlier in that very quest, I needed to get a key to get through the gate to the person's house. I learned that the key could be picked off a guard elsewhere who sleeps on the job. In that case, there was an option to let my rogue companion try, but that's specifically a skill she isn't good at (which is mentioned once or twice elsewhere, too). So the only companion skill dialogue option actually scripted into the module is designed to fail.
     
  2. Sergio Morozov

    Sergio Morozov Paladin

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    Waterd103 wrote:
    "- Survival seems useless once you have level 4+ more characters, creatures are pretty weak anyway, i think survival woudl be VERY COOL, if it would improve your chances of resting without disturb."

    Are not you the one who complained about too tough shadows? (I bet you did not encounter that ettin yet. Well, he is not that powerful, but...)

    As for not having mighty weapons - enchant those you have. I think there are no many enchanted weapons in ToEE because party can create a large number of their own flaming, frost, shocking keen holy somethings. (And this would mean +3d6 damage to everyone and +5d6 damage to evil ones.) Not counting that you could make flaming, flaming burst, frost, ice burst, shocking (+5d6 to everyone).

    I myself find heavy pick with burst and keen enchantments especially devastating, because on critical it will do 1d4 [piercing] +3d6 [elemental] +9d10 [elemental critical damage] (if it has all 3 burst enchatments.)

    Of course, you need to be level 12 magic-user to make it.

    Oh, by the way Fragarach can also be enchanted (I think this is a bug, since it is already powerful, but its native enchantments do not count against enchanting limit...)

    Also about being angry on Circle of Eight's love of RAW.

    It very wise to love RAW, because it was made by a whole team (WoTC) to be balanced and nice to play. I doubt that anyone proposing changes to ToEE which are contrary to d20srd or PHB or whatever had thought on them as much as WoTC team on their rules (well, maybe individually he/she did think more than some WoTC employees, but if we multiply number of WoTC employees by average number of hours each of them spent thinking... You get the point...)

    The same is applied to Co8 mods and team and worktime (I mean, they obviously dedicated a lot of their time to make us more happy!)

    [P. S. I am not a member/employee of WoTC and/or Co8.]
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2009
  3. Waterd103

    Waterd103 Member

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    AS i already pointed out, I already finished a run.
    Whe i faced shadows i had Survival maxed out in two charcters and i was level 2.
    AS i said. I never faced another powerfull creature in the whole game in random encounter, in fact everthing was weaker than shadows, evne when i was level 8+.
    I can claim that those shadows were some kind of bug or something.
     
  4. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt Veteran Member

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    ^ Shadows aren't a bug, they have high DR, and can only be effectively damaged by certain things (fire and, iirc, holy spells and wpns).

    Calling that a bug is like calling ochre jellies a bug. Shadows are supposed to be very tough, they're the strongest undead enemy in the game.
     
  5. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    I agree with Ausdoerrt, but just FYI I've tentatively switched the Shadows entry in the random encounter file to black bears. waterd103 wasn't the first to complain about this, and I think there's too much potential - more than with any other RE that I'm aware of - to get TPKed by shadows. Getting TPKed in a RE sucks.

    Black bears typically dwell in swamps. Their CR is 2, iirc, as opposed to the shadows' 3. They are tough, but not impossible.
     
  6. realmzmaster

    realmzmaster Established Member

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    Gaear, are you saying there will be no more shadow random encounters? :no: I like the shadow RE. It an interesting surprise and keeps you on your toes. Oh well, I guess I am in the minority.
     
  7. Basil the Timid

    Basil the Timid Dont Mention the War

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    Black bears dwell in swamps??

    R.I.P. Bart the Bear (a grizzly) - a damn good animal actor ("Close to the Edge")
     
  8. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Aye, they do.

    I don't believe shadows are in any REs beyond the swamp map one, so yes, there will be no more shadow REs (if this change stays in effect).

    Here we fall victim to the "I like this you like that" game. We can't make a gameplay determination based on whether players 'like' a certain thing or not, pursuant to their individual tastes and preferences. If we did, there would be no reason why Waterd103's dislike of shadow encounters shouldn't win out over your love of them, or no reason why we shouldn't implement Iuz random encounters if some players liked that. Rather, we have to judge by balance and propriety, and IMO getting routinely killed in a RE is imbalanced and improper. I don't believe REs are intended to kill you; rather they exist (among possibly other reasons) to give the impression that things go on outside of whatever areas you're adventuring in. You're supposed to get killed in plot-sensitive areas where the immersive impact, based on your emotional investment, can be most keenly felt.

    Think of it this way: would you like your ToEE role-playing tombstone to read "Here lies Realmzmaster, veteran of dozens of perilous battles with the evil denizens of the realms. Slain by Zuggtmoy in a brave campaign to safeguard humanity and destroy the ToEE," or "Here lies Realmzmaster, veteran of dozens of perilous battles with the evil denizens of the realms. Randomly killed by shadows in a swamp on his way to buy whores in Nulb." ?
     
  9. wizgeorge

    wizgeorge Prophet of Wizardy

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    Hey, Charlotte is my resident super-hero fighter. She's naughty, nasty and mean, but a great fighter(lots of protos help). Got a mean, drowish look about her, but she's true neutral. Just curious, but is her portrait the old pc or a half_knight/adamo creation?
     
  10. Emirkol the Chaotic

    Emirkol the Chaotic Proud Polytheist

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    Seriously LOL!!

    OK. Now we must have humorous tombstones in ToEE!
     
  11. realmzmaster

    realmzmaster Established Member

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    Actually Gaear, either one works for me:poke:

    Live fast, die young and leave a good looking corpse! :evilgrin:
     
  12. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

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    I think we should leave the Shadows.

    Live fast, die old, leave a mangled corpse. ;)
     
  13. Emirkol the Chaotic

    Emirkol the Chaotic Proud Polytheist

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    Live fast. Don't die. And leave a wide trail of other corpses behind you!
     
  14. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

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    Already do that. I didn't say the mangled (hard to ID) corpse was MINE. :thumbsup:
     
  15. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt Veteran Member

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    Well, isn't that what Survival is for?
     
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