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Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by WinstonShnozwick, Dec 23, 2011.
Can't have a bard/paladin. Bards can't be LG.
Just started my new save. I chose to have a bard as the third character, and I'm having him wield longsword + small weapon (probably morningstar). He's going to pick up flametongue later in the game, and I'll give him feats for better gear and two weapon fighting. Multiclass wise, I'm thinking ranger to increase the primary/secondary or something. What would be a good class to pair with bard? I'm going mostly bard to not dillute the spellcasting, so it will be bard15-18/???3-5 level wise.
If you are going melee, keep in mind that bards don't get many hit points and have to wear light armor, so they will die fast. Perhaps you should consider a bow user.
That said, go fighter for the feats or perhaps Paladin, since both bards and pallies use use charisma.
Another thing to keep in mind is the experience penalty from the uneven class levels.
I would suggest a fighter or maybe, just maybe, a ranger if you're going with two weapon fighting. However, I think a human or elven Bard specializing in the repeating crossbow is a good matchup. That's what my next bard is going to go for.
Other than that, if you're going to go for a dual wielder, you have to really really really stress dexterity, because if he's going to be in it and still cast, he can't wear anything really heavy, meaning that he is going to have to still rely on a primarily dex based AC to get him out of trouble. Although mithril shirts definitely help.
If that's the case, you're going to have to rely on several stats: Charisma, Dexterity, and Constitution. Wisdom can give him a good resist, but really, it's not necessary for spellcasting I don't think, as his style is closer to a sorcerer.
For ranged, I'd suggest an elf or even a halfling (dex bonus, etc). For close combat dual wielding, I'd say first either elf or human. Elf for the dex bonus, human for the extra feat and no constituion penalty as he's gonna need all the help he can get.
Interestingly enough, my rogue has such a high dexterity that she doesn't get any benefit from Masterwork Marauder armor unless it's enchanted. In fact, unenchanted actually hurts her now. Then again, I started out with an elf that had a 20 dex stat, and just pumped everything into it until she hit a 30 with gloves of +6 on.
Overall, very hard to hit and was damn good with a dual rapier combination (normal sized rapier and a small rapier, both enchanted with holy, +3, ice damage and a few bursts. With improved critical, she did insane damage, killing giants pretty quickly).
I am currently experimenting with a crazy Bard build.
bard 4/ rogue 2/ ranger 4/ barb 2
started out as a rogue, for the huge skill point allotment. He is a half elf. VERY versatile, with dual-wield feats from his Ranger specialization, a pet (Jackal) and packing a magical repeating crossbow. as long as all class levels are within 2 levels, there is no EXP issues. I still gave him augment summoning feat as well... though at 4th level he does not have much access to summon animal spells, and as a spellcaster is kinda limited. But as long as you max Skill points in Bard songs, he still seems to get all the Bard songs for his total level. One main issue is you cannot get as many feats jumping around between 4 class types on one character. He has very high DEX scores, and with light armor has a great AC to be a frontline character (rage definitely helps!). Great support character too, and a TRUE jack-of-all-trades ... and a pretty good face character too! I will likely finish the build bard 6/ rogue 4/ ranger 6/ barb 4
Best Bard builds is a dual class character though - I recommend half-elf or human for race, and then for the secondary class choose rogue for HUGE skills allotment, ranger for fighting skills, versatility and a pet; or add barbarian for a bard that can rage, and dodge! never used fighter, as a bard is not meant to be a armored fighter in my opinion ... but i suppose the increased feat selection for a human fighter/ bard would be impressive.
Single class bard in TOEE does not get enough of his natural skills and perks in this game to make it worth it, as the spell list is rather limited, and BAB is only OK.... even at LVL 20
Gnomes get bard as a favored class, so it would probably be interesting to make a cleric/ bard .... never tried that. I could see that being a INTERESTING and unique build though!
Chaotic Neutral gnome cleric/bard with a trickery domain i'm geting some good ideas here ...
Bards are AWESOME.
Already I'm thinking about an interesting bard type of build:
Half-Orc Bard/Barbarian. Start off with Bard so he gets high skill alotment, then change him to Barbarian for a bit, then back to Bard.
You're looking at a scary clockwork orange type chaotic evil bastard with a big ass axe that sings while he kills. Can't get much more awesome than that.
I will keep him focused with a single weapon, Great Axe, and just work it from there. Give him some buffs and a periapt of Wound Closure, and he might be pretty decent while raging.
Hey General Ghoul - i was wondering, how did you create (legally) a rogue/monk character?? It is my understanding a monk can only be any lawful alignment, and a rogue must be anything BUT lawful? Can a monk be True Neutral? that is the only way i suppose that combo would work ... unless i don't have my facts straight a rogue/ monk sounds pretty cool though...
Rogues can be lawful.
oops. yeah i looked on SRD online resources and yep, rogues can be any alignment. I stand corrected!
Hmmmm.... now, i must create a Paladin/ rogue combo ... LOL thanks for the info Major Blackheart
Great ideas for a new party that starts off all rogues, then becomes Monk, Paladin, Bard, Ranger, Wizard ... multiclass characters.
I couldn't find it in the online SRD, but in the D&D 3.5E Players Handbook it says that all of the class levels must be within 1 level of all other classes to have no penalties. (D&D 3.0E had the same rules.) For each class that is not (ignoring your favored class) there is a cumulative 20% penalty to XP.
i have not seen a penalty in any of the character's levelups... or EXP gain.
i am just about positive it says in the TOEE tooltips on this that it is within 2 levels..
Yeah, i checked SRD and i don't see data there either. looked all over the 'net, and yeah it seems that it states "within one level" ... so ... i have no idea.
I'll check again when i get home, but i'm pretty sure i did not run into any loss of XP with this build... he's same XP as the single class characters in the party IIRC
In the interests of the paladin, what is a fallen paladin's combat ability like? Say for role playing reasons I want an unlawful paladin, so I purposely do evil deeds to fell one. In the fallen state, I lose turn/smite/detect evil/spells, but those are largely useless to me throughout the game anyway. What is the resulting paladin like, would it be just as good as a fighter?
I stand corrected. My goof. Thanks for the correction GG.
A fallen paladin is pretty much a fighter until you get atoned. Different skill sets, but otherwise you do not have access to any of the Paladins abilities, including his divine health and immunity to fear.
As pointed above "fallen paladin" dont have any single paladin benefit (+cha to saves, smite/detect evil, resistance to decease, aura of courage and so on). It will be only a fighter, but with less feats, so very useless from the practical aspect character.
Also I believe it would still be "lawful good" alignment even when fallen.