Multiclassing

Ranger 1 (favored enemy goblinoid for all the bugbears you face or human for the bosses/moathouse foes/temple guards), fighter 1, barbarian x (or Barbarian 1/ranger x) is a fine build, be warned it requires human or half orc (which won't work with the ranger variant and loses the bonus feat of human and requires 15 int instead of 13). Use the extra feats to get the combat expertise, combat reflexes and improved trip at level 2, then grab Power Attack and Improved Intiitive (If it were PnP, spiked chain in place of II, but ToEE doesn't do reach correctly) and whatever you want, have a wizard/strength domain cleric (extended) enlarge person the character, and watch them go. Would work better if there was a way to trip on AoO.

Paladin 2/Sorcerer x would be good if ToEE had prestige classes, but pretty iffy as is.

 

I would have, but my party doesn't have a fighter/barb for main combat unit. I used the most cartoonish pictures for my custom characters because they were my favorite portraits, and built the characters to be like the portraits. So I have a monk, rogue, and cleric that are all my combat units, with my ranger and druid bringing up crowd control and picking off individuals.

 

Well, if none of your front-liners get +1 BAB/lvl, no wonder you're having some trouble. I guess the best you can do is have the cleric (fully armored, I presume) draw attention and "tank", while utilizing monk's mobility to flank targets for the rogue.

 

The monk class is broken in a bad way: Increased speed and an ability you need to stand still to use.

How this got past even WotC's playtesters I will never know. I think it was the same in 3.0, so how it got into 3.5 is even harder to figure out.

 

Huh? Last time I checked, Stunning Fist was a standard action. It is in TOEE, anyway.

Monks also get Improved Trip as a bonus feat. What better ability can you have for a fast-moving character?

 

I think your reply makes my point. In TOEE, many players are trying to use the Monk as a replacement tank, but you openly acknowledged they can't do that without really high ability scores. It's reinforced by your comment that you play them as specialist characters and that they need buffs from spellcasting allies. On those points, I agree. However, if we were building characters with a 30 pt buy instead of 25 pt, a Monk can be as effective of a tank as a Fighter (and Paladins really become impressive). That's because the Monk can better utilize the extra points than a Fighter can, due to MAD.

He means Flurry of Blows. In D&D 3.5, a well-built Monk does comparable damage to a warrior class when he is able to make a full-attack action, but poor damage if he moves. The problem with this is that the Monk has abilities which suggest different, non-complementary styles of combat, whereas a warrior or rogue will typically be built to focus on one or the other (high mobility or limited mobility). I think most TOEE players are trying to use the Monk as a tank-replacement, which is why this is relevant. (In PnP the Monk isn't really a tank replacement but is very good for dealing with enemies spellcasters with its mobility/tumbling, high saves, evasion, Stunning Fist (which targets Fortitude), and good grappling ability.) While I agree that being able to trip or disarm is an OK compensation for not having a good way to do solid damage with a single attack because it is often more useful than the piddly damage, I could think of much better abilities for fast moving characters. On the other hand, I wouldn't go so far as to call the TOEE Monk "broken", even if it's not quite as good as the other combat classes.

Also, in PnP, trips and stunning fist can be used as a part of a full-attack, although this might not be coded in TOEE. I would suggest having Stunning Fist coded as a check box option where it is applied to the Monk's first attack (whether a full attack or single attack), because it is a "declare before the attack" ability. It's not perfect, but it's as good a fix as the Luck Domain power.

Another option that would help Monks would be to allow them to use unarmed strikes while wielding a weapon (i.e. attack with feet, elbows, knees, etc.). A good option in PnP (where this is allowed) is to Power Attack with a quarterstaff while making a single attack and flurry with feet while making a full attack. This also could be implemented as a check box, and it wouldn't be a big pain if a player hot-keys it.

 

"good grappling ability"

What?

Before it can do damage with its unarmed strike in a grapple, it first has to grapple someone, which is almost impossible with medium BAB and not being able to almost singularly invest in strength as a fighter or barbarian can. Even druids grapple better by wildshaping into something with crazy strength and size bonuses (possibly qualities that improve grapple). Same goes for other maneuvers.

 

Monks get Improved Grapple as a bonus feat choice; that combined with medium BAB is plenty to grapple enemy casters who aren't prepared to deal with grapple. If it's a caster prepared for grapple, well, even a Large raging barbarian won't be able to do much in the way of grappling.

 

Trip works weird in TOEE in that you can move then trip but not vice versa. Stunning fist sort of works in the player's favor actually, since if you use it without moving, the game gives you full attack with each hit being a stunning blow.

Well, they're using them wrong then. I use monks to hunt spellcasters, and they do a great job of it in TOEE. I suppose you can build a monk to tank, but then you'd have to dump other stats meaning he won't hit as often.

What you call MAD I call build flexibility *shrug*

 

Some new things to talk about;

-Bards. These guys are an enigma to me. Best represented to me by the bard in "The Sea of Trolls" novel. Magic, fighting, etc, they can do just about anything. But they are all worse at these abilities than full users, IE fighter/wizard. How can you make one good?

-Paladins. Another enigma. I only used a paladin once in a save in 6.0. She was pretty good, my mainline fighter with a halberd. But paladins can do other things kind of like monks. What are paladins meant for?

-Multiclass Bard 10/Paladin 10. How would this work?

 

Not very well. Bards in Core 3.5e are meant to be support characters that play the role of party face/social skills and make everyone else in the party really really good. They were never meant to be good at a bunch of things on their own.

You can make some decent bardic warriors with splatbooks, but TOEE doesn't include material outside of Core books (DMG, PHB, MM) and certainly doesn't have everything from those books either.

A core bard10/pal10 would be an atrocious character for a real lvl 20 game, but should do fine for TOEE.

 

A Paladin MUST be Lawful Good.

A Bard MUST be non-Lawful. without consoling, you could not legally make a bard/ paladin, AFAIK...

My two favorite classes though! Every party i build has a bard and a paladin in it, pretty much.

good combos for me have been:

ranger 11/rogue 9 half elf

FAST, agile fighting specialist with tons of abilities (Evasion, Improved Two Weapon Fighting & Defense, etc.) and can fight anywhere, very suitable face and frontline

barb 3/druid 17 half orc

Give him a huge axe, spear, maul or reach weapon, and he smashes everything ... with the ability to rage and wildshape if things get crazy. Also can fall back on the impressive spells of the druid if needed. Needs High STR, CON and WIS scores to succeed.

bard 11/rogue 9 half elf

Makes everyone else excel at what they do with Bardsongs, is a great face as well, and with Improved Conjuration can summon some awesome critters into combat if those spells are taken.

17 cleric of Obad Hai (Plant/Earth Domains)/ wizard 3 (specialist Divination) elf

Has the huge full spellcasting capabilities of a cleric, fighting abilities to stay on the frontline if needed, or heal, Several uses of TrueStrike and the ability to scribe (and then cast from a scroll) any spell in their spellbook they know, even if it is past their level (probably a TOEE engine foible, but COOL nonetheless!). Can also turn and or rebuke/command Plants, Earth elementals AND destroy Undead ... AWESOME. As an elf, she can use blade, longbow and shield as free racial feats, and can choose to wear Full Plate armor and wield a longsword and shield for frontline duties, use a longspear for extended melee, or wear the MoonIvy armor for spellcasting and archery from the rear of the party.

 

Since like was said above you can't mix Bard and Paladin you could try Bard/Fighter/Barbarian. I know the games are not the same but I have a Bard/Barbarian/Fighter going for 16/2/2 as a human in DDO. I haven't played TOEE for a few months so I don't remember what all of my characters are but I think they are all multiclassed and I have been doing well.

 

I forgot to make note of this exploit for caster multiclassing, I believe that someone said it? Your caster can take one level of wizard in order to copy scrolls to learn for crafting purposes.

 

^ You still have to have the required "caster level", so it's not that big. I guess being able to learn scrolls above your level is a bit of an exploit though.