Multi-class character help

Nah, I've had a few decent multiclassed spellcasters. Unless you multiclass a spellcaster to another type of spellcaster, it can work quite well. For example, wiz/sor is a bad idea, but say wiz/rog or wiz/fgt can be made to work. Also, clr/fgt is one of my favourite combos.

 

Though, in most cases, unless you are just briefly dipping into the rog or fighter class (for sneak or proficiency or BaB), you are talking about building a frontline style character with caster levels....

Don't get me wrong, I loves me some beats cleric as much as the next guy.... but without prestige classes, you can't make a hybrid caster type intended to still operate as a caster....

 

Well, frankly I do it the other way - a non-caster character that takes a few levels of casting class to be self-sufficient. Otherwise, it's just as you say - a level or two for minor bonuses.

If you're running a party of 4 or more, multiclassing is really not necessary, just a way to mess around. If you're running a party of 3 or less, however, multiclassing becomes necessary to cover all that's needed for a good party.

 

Don't forget if you have a human character and pick fighter as your first class you get three feats to start off with.

1 feat for being human
2 feats for being a fighter

And humans get no xp penalty for multi-classing no matter what class you choose!

 

No, they're not that good. What doesn't count is their highest class level. So, if you're an X 8/Y 3/Z 3, your X levels don't count for penalties, and since Y and Z are both 3, there's no penalties. However, in an X 8/Y 4/Z 1, the X still don't count, but Y and Z are too far apart, meaning there will be a penalty.

The advantage of humans is always taking the highest class level, whereas other races have specific classes that don't count for this purpose.

I'm not sure the XP penalty is even really necessary (I guess it's meant to encourange 2nd edition-like multiclassing without prohibiting other combinations entirely). Excessive multiclassing tends to yield a weak character anyway, except when it's with prestige classes, but those don't count for penalties at all. I think Pathfinder drops the penalties and makes "favored class" give you mild bonuses. So dwarves are slightly better fighters than elves. Etc.

 

dollio,

I stand corrected, although when I think of multi-classing it's just two classes because anymore than that I tend to end up with a character that can do many things, but not very well.

Here's what the SRD says about humans, (just like you said).

• Medium: As Medium creatures, humans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Human base land speed is 30 feet.
• 1 extra feat at 1st level.
• 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level.
• Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic). See the Speak Language skill.
• Favored Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass human takes an experience point penalty, his or her highest-level class does not count.

 

So, if I had a human male toon with stats like these: Str 14, Dex 16, Cons 18, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 18 (which I've already started as a sorceror, mainly because I have little experience playing with them): would it be a bad idea to give him a level of Fighter at Level 2? Just so he could wear light armor and do some melee?

The party he is in is:
Human Bard
Half-Orc fighter (which I intend to level to Level 4 then switch to Barbarian)
Human Druid
Human Wizard
Human Sorceror

If I were to grab one or two levels of Rogue for the Bard (I think her Dex is 17) when should I do it and how many would be advisable?

Would one level of Fighter be enough for the sorceror or should I alternate him:
S 1
F 1 / S 1
F 1 / S 2
F 2 / S 2
F 2 / S 3
F 3 / S 3
F 3 / S 4
F 4 / S 4
and from there on do strictly Sorceror?

 

My suggestion would be to wait until he can cast at least 3rd level spells before grabbing any fighter levels- Fireball and Stinking Cloud will help keep the party alive while you gain those fighter levels and then switch back to sorcerer. Just be warned that you will suffer penalties to your spell casting checks while wearing any type of armor (the green, purple and blue elven chains might be exceptions). I'd say stick with bracers and Amulets of Natural Armor for him just to be sure (I think a buckler could be used w/o penalty but not sure about a shield).

 

Sorcerer is the easiest casting class to play. Learn Fireball. Watch everything burn.

In seriousness though, a Sorcerer basically is a Wizard with a limited spell selection but with more casts per day. They're complete monsters in mid-game since they can spam Fireball without a care in the world. Whereas Wizards need to craft a wand in order to get a similar effect, and wands certainly can't be Empowered or Maximized.

Having a Sorcerer aid in melee is pretty pointless. Fighter levels will impede on the Sorcerer's already slow spell progression (Extra feats are nice though). Plus melee options seem really redundant on a Sorcerer since they already are loaded with magic artillery anyway. If an enemy gets too close to your Sorc, just Ghoul Touch them and either run away or Coup de Grace them with your staff.

That said, if you must multiclass your Sorcerer, Paladin is unquestionably the best choice. Two levels of Paladin and your Sorcerer will have some insane saving throws. Just be warned that Paladin levels will prevent you from using metamagic feats on your Sorcerer's spells due to a bug. Paladin levels will also enable your Sorc to use weapons and armor as well, if you're so hellbent on bringing them into close combat.

 

So there is not really a ToEE / D&D equivalent of the The Elder Scrolls "Battlemage" or "Spellsword" eh? That is sort of what I had in mind.

Ah well, he already took level 2 in Fighter. I may just go back to Sorceror and leave it at that frome. I've noticed: wearing leather armor and carrying a steel shield (total spell failure % of about 15%) he has yet to have any spells fail. I'd assume that either concentration or spellcasting offset that chance of failure?

 

No, Spellblades and what-not are not part of the core ruleset so they're not in ToEE. There is a Prestige Class in the core ruleset though, but Prestige Classes aren't implemented in ToEE.

Spell Failure is a static value, it'll always be a 15%, no matter what. No skills or anything affect that value. The Still Spell metamagic feat however can get around the spell casting failure.

 

Bards can wear Light Armour and cast (their) spells without failure penalty, from a smaller, limited pool of Arcane Spells. It's the closest vanilla match I believe.

A Cleric with carefully chosen domains can borrow a few, signature spells from Arcane and cast without spell failure - I'd suggest looking at Fire/Air/Earth, Luck, Magic, Trickery, Travel and War (possible weapon feats).

In any case consider being an Elf for theme and additional weapon feats (Rapier, Longsword, Longbow). I'm quite fond of my Blademaster of Corellion - TWF & War domain for 'triple wield' (summon spirit weapon = 3x longswords ) and Sun Cleric of Ehlonna with rapid fire and greater & improved turning (I play her like a bow ranger that can explode undead, particularly the piercing resistant skeles ).

Finally, as mentioned the Still Spell metamagic feat is viable, if awkward.

 

Awesome info. Exploding undead = good times :thumbsup::yes:

I think that is what I like best about this game, the sheer number of permutations and unexpectedly useful combinations that you can come up with.

 

Two fun multiclass character builds to try are either a Bard X/Wizard 1 or a Sorcerer X/Wizard 1. You level them as Bard or Sorcerer with only 1 level of Wizard, so you get a familar + spellbook + scribe scroll.

With sufficient Spellcraft skill and stacked Scholar Kits, a Bard/Wiz or Sorcerer/Wiz can copy any level arcane spell to their spellbook, and scribe those same spells as scrolls as well! The Bard can employ his Use Magic Item skill to then read those scrolls, even if they are many levels higher than he could cast and/or spells he normally couldn't know! Also the Raven familiar adds 3 to your Appraise skill, so a Bard with high Appraise (skill level + base Int + Fox's Cunning + Raven) can scribe scrolls and sell them for a profit, serving as the party money cow (prices max out at Appraise 19 iirc). Read more about Barding here.

The Sorcerer can't abuse Use Magic Item as much as a Bard can, but gets to combine the spontaneous cast of a Sorc with expanded spell knowledge through having a spellbook as a Wizard would. The best of both worlds! The NPC Pischella is perfect for this if you don't want to use one of your 5 PC slots.

Important feats for Magic Users in ToEE: Improved Initiative, Spell Focus Enchant, Greater Spell Focus Enchant, Heighten Spell, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration (Enchantment School rocks in ToEE, and Heighten Spell stacks with itself, so you can cast a lvl 5 Charm Person or Tasha's Hideous Laughter spell, which along with your spell focus makes it very tough to resist!)

Lesser feats for Mages but still good (mostly because some spells are THROWN rather than require a DC save): Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot + high DEX (Cat's Grace spell).

 

Is it possible to cast those buff spells right before you level up and boost your stat or ability gains for the next level?

Forget for sure which game it was . . . Fallout 3 or Fallout maybe. But that was just standard practice: about to level up, make sure you had "Thingamajig Sauce of Intellligence Boosting" and be ready to drink it right before you leveled up :no::yes: