Missing Weapon Proficiencies

Yeah- but the Cleaver gets a tremendous threat range too- for a one-handed small weapon doing critical hits like crazy- I'd say it is at LEAST semi-uber!!

But yeah- leave it.

BTW whats the difference between Fragarach (doesn't that sound like Fraggle Rock?) and Scather? They seem the same to me.

 

But which is it? You can buy single axes and hand axes and I don't want to make a mistake!

Also, I've not seen a Cleaver yet, but Fruella had a Meisterwerk Great Cleaver which the mod changes to one-handed axe proficiency (which really ought to be a one-handed Battle Ax for a Cleaver, not a hand ax - they are both one-handed but the hand ax can also be thrown, IIRC. In fact, I think the Battle Ax can be used one or two-handed, like a Bastard sword, but doesn't need an exotic weapon proficiency).

But considering that the damage of a Great Cleaver is the same as a Glaive and it has a 20% critical threat range, the Great Cleaver really ought to be a two-handed weapon and use the two-Handed Great Ax proficiency. Like the Great Ax, it suffers only in that it doesn't have the reach of a pole-arm like a Glaive. I don't think it really compares with a katana.

Actually, better yet would be new, unique proficiencies, otherwise you get double Weapon Focus etc for the price of one. So If I can't find another Great Cleaver I' can dual wield with an Ax.

I saw a Barabrian-Fighter build posted that had two of these things and used ITWF etc, but I'm starting to think that it's a rules-breaker and a campaign buster. TWO Great Cleavers whizzing around can't be right...

~

 

It's thoroughly broken. Maybe not as broken as Fragrach or Scather, but it's better than any other weapon in the game by a long shot. I just don't grasp the mindset that leads to complaints of "The game's too easy" while people are running around dual-wielding the ultimate swords that never miss, or the ridiculously over-powered cleavers that they've crafted the crap out of. Well, no kidding it's going to be easy if you do that.

 

The cleavers had to be some kind of joke, IMO. Only great ugly bugbear chicks & that old battle-axe Fruella wielding them.

Where I live there's an expression about "getting you ass cut" which seems to apply to these bi-otches.

 

On second thoughts, a Great Cleaver probably has a better recovery time than a two-handed war ax and, in 2E terms, a lower WSF and would be less clumsy to wield and balanced very differently, requiring a different combat style.

But I can't see it as a hand ax. In terms of ease of use and combat style, it's more like a cross between a bastard sword and a broad-sword version of a katana or falchion.

As far as it being a joke, it IS a joke if one-handed.

~

 

It is no better than a +1 Keen Bastard sword. Well, okay, it is slightly better, in that you don't have to take a feat to wield it one handed, but at the same time it has a smaller threatened zone than a bastard sword, so that evens it out a little. Remember, even though it is called a Masterwork Great Cleaver it is in actuality a +1 Keen Great Cleaver. I wouldn't say it's much better than the +1 Holy Longsword you can also pick up in Homlett.

 

Not quite.

Here's the stats for the Masterwork Great Cleaver in the protos.tab:

Weapon Crit. Hit Multiplier: x3 (Bastard Sword is x2)
Weapon Crit Hit Threat Range: 19-20. (Same as Bastard Sword, but this is before Keen is applied. So it has the same threat range as a keen bastard sword. Weapons in 3.5 never have a x3 multiplier and a crit range above 20 unless they're exotic. With keen it's possible to have a weapon with a X3 multiplier and a range of 19-20, but that's it for martial weapons.)

The Great Cleaver does the same damage as a bastard sword, with the same threat range, but a higher damage multiplier. It's a better weapon than a bastard sword and doesn't cost you a feat to use one-handed. In my eyes that's broken.

The holy longsword follows the normal weapons rules and is the reward for the most time-consuming quest in the game. (Probably way more than the player should get for it, but I doubt a lot of people would bother going through the effort to marry Meleny if it wasn't for her dowery.)

If you spent the money and XP required to add keen to the holy longsword or holy to the great cleaver, the great cleaver would blow the longsword away, hands down. That's not right.

 

I guess you and I just have different ideas of what constitutes "thoroughly broken". To me the Cleaver is just not quite rules compliant. Fragarach is broken. The Sword of Cahoem is thoroughly broken (but then, it was meant to be, and is only available through the console).

 

hey the Sword of Cahoem is only +3, its the other magical ablity it has that makes it fun - for friends and foes alike

 

Fragarach isn't broken it is sweet...lol

 

Pffft. Only a DM would call Fragrach broken. Players ... what player would object to such a sweet weapon? Besides, it's obviously an Artifact. ALL artifacts are, by their very nature, broken.

And if the game's DESIGNERS decided to put it in, who are we, poor ignorant players that we are, to call it "broken"?

Heeheeheeheehee ... :largeclap

So just to make sure I have it right ... if my rogue 8/fighter 1 takes Improved Critical/Handaxe next level it doubles the threat range on the great cleaver? :dead: