Livonya's Beta 1.5 Mod.zip

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Livonya, Apr 23, 2005.

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  1. 0rion79

    0rion79 Established Member

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    I really have no idea about the +24 racial, it is non-sense.
    Lamia should have a total +7 on will: +2 iron Will, +3 racial, +2 Wisdom.
    The problem is that the game adds her 3 CLR and 3 SOR levels to give her the possibility to cast spells like a real spellcaster, even if she should only cast her spell-like abilities like a 9th level Sorcerer. But Lamia doens't have any class level and those levels should be rebalanced, adding penalities to basic monster's values, otherwise they are calculated like class levels.
     
  2. taltamir

    taltamir Established Member

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    Is it possible to give her a non lootable magic item that mimics her magic powers without giving her those levels?
     
  3. nitewolf

    nitewolf Packleader

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    Why? Why try to weaken the creatures? The game is easy enough out of the box without making creatures weaker...IMHO...
     
  4. 0rion79

    0rion79 Established Member

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    I can't image any item that does so.
    As Steve Moret told me, the only way to make monsters with ony spell-like abilities but with no spellcaster levels would be to add maluses in the protos to compensate the spellcaster classlevel bonuses.
    Making it quick,
    Cleric: HP 3d8+con, ST +3+1+3, attack +2, CR +3
    Sorcerer: HP 3d4+Con, ST +3+1+1, attack +1, CR +3
    So, Lamia should have standard scores plus: HP -3d8+con + (-3d4+con), ST -6,-2,-4, attack -3, CR -6. The problem is that, following Liv's advices, HP can't be fixed after the monster creation.
    The problem is that adding those levels make the monster to be stronger than its CR and I would certainly like more a stronger Lamia that followed Magical Beasts HD progression (with all bonuses comming from it) than a Lamia that has class levels that it could not have (after all, it is still a beast!)

    Wolf, the point is not making the creature weaker, but I think that a +24 on Will is outstanding and highly unfair. More, why so high? because the AI cheats and not because of some role-playing element. So I would like to see if it is possibile to find alternatives to make Lamia, like many other monsters, still strong but following rules and reason, not cheating. I want you to note that a 10th level cleric with Wis 20, + Amulet of Wisdom and Cloack of resistance +3 (so, super powerful and super-equiped!) has a ST +17 on Will, while Lamia, with her CR 6, has +24.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2005
  5. nitewolf

    nitewolf Packleader

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    I don't want to get into any fights, arguements, or otherwise. I just won't use any mods that make the challenges easier.

    'nuff said.
     
  6. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    I'd settle for Dispel Magic working so u could get rid of the charm on your PC's once she is dead. Having Elmo keep hacking at u, killing him in self defence and finding you r the Butcher of Hommlet is not acceptable.

    Throw in a +24 to saves for good measure? Hmmm, not the first time ToEE has pulled a stunt like that... %-/
     
  7. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    Ok I have more wierdness today, while fighting hedrack. so everythings going well most of the bugbears are dead, the hill giants are dead, the gargoyles are nearly dead, Iuz comes along and sneak attacks Zaxis with a crit for 63 points of damage! He died obviously, my face man - mr charisma, bites the dust as well. Cuthbert shows up, then they both disapear. I finish the battle and found out that Iuz animated Zaxis as a zombie! (I promtly turned all undead after they got up) Now my poor bard has no body! he can still pick stuff up, but has gets no turns in combat (doesn't even get an initiative roll), I cant talk to him to remove him from the party or anything!
     
  8. Livonya

    Livonya Established Member

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    I will work on both the Lamia and the Iuz problem with Animate Dead.

    I will get them fixed.

    As for making the Lamia easier. No thanks. I have less than no interest in making the game easier.

    You can always use Charm on the charmed NPC/PC. It is a pretty simple thing to hit them with your own Charm or Suggestion spell.

    I will however see if I can't get it fixed so that when the Lamia dies the spell expires. That makes sense, not sure why it isn't doing that, but I will see what I can do.

    - Livonya
     
  9. Livonya

    Livonya Established Member

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    Nitewolf... I am with you on that. Also, I think, and I could be wrong that you were saying at some earlier point that it was a mistake to remove the DR from the Gnolls... maybe I am wrong, but that is what I remember...

    In 2.0 I did remove the DR but I also balanced it out by giving some stat additions to the Gnolls to make up for it... especially for the Gnolls that come later in the game in the Temple.

    - Livonya
     
  10. Libri

    Libri Member

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    Try doing non-lethal damage.
     
  11. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    Thanks a bunch Liv. Might mention I tried counter-charming on Zaxis once when he got charmed by her (he is having a bad day it seems from this thread!) but he just got violent as soon as it wore off. I tried all sorts of things, nothing worked for me. (I think in the end I killed him and resurrected him or something, I forgot, but it was a ridiculous pain, if the charm wore off trying to get back to Hommlet to get Terjon to cast it, which it invariably did, for memory he just disappeared).
     
  12. taltamir

    taltamir Established Member

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    I did NOT say a thing about making the challenges easier. I suggested a correction to a bug, that involved creating a custom magical item that imitates the spell like abilities she is supposed to have, and then removing the levels of sorc and replacing them with racial hit die (currently she has levels of sorc instead of racial hit die, with a limit where she can ONLY use the sorc spells that correspond to the spell like abilities she is supposed to have. This means that THE ORIGINAL SCRIPTS for her include a workaround for something the engine is not designed to do properly, I am suggesting a BETTER workaround as there is an error caused by the current method). This will allow the CORRECT stats to be used without weakening the lamia. The only actual change would be that the lamia will get its proper bonus to resistance against dominate (+7) instead of the erronous one (+24).

    And enough with the stupid ultimatums... I am sick of hearing people saying "I will not play any mod that does so and so"... Yes, you are doing everyone a favor by playing a certain mod... right!
    Seriously, every time I hear such a thing is when something is taken completely out of context. Like right now when you thought I am suggesting to make the lamia alot weaker, or when some other goof thought fruella was going to be DELETED FROM THE GAME because she has not had her stats tweaked like many other npcs.
    Next time, instead of the ultimatom, make a case suggesting WHY said idea is a bad idea... Furthermore, my name is NOT liviona, as such, I do not dictate what is going to be in her mod. Me making a suggestion is NOT her making a descision, and you using such lame ultimatoms for a suggestion some other PLAYER made is, quite frankly, retarded!
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2005
  13. Morpheus

    Morpheus Mindflayer Veteran

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    *cough* Hers isn't either. It's Livonya. *cough*
     
  14. Livonya

    Livonya Established Member

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    I am going to fix this, but I thought I would mention that this is actually correct by the rules.

    A character can NOT be resurrected once Animate Dead has been cast on their corpse.

    By the rules your bard should simply be dead forever.

    Normally, the game doesn't allow enemy NPCs to cast Animate Dead on your party (just another example of how TOEE cheats in favor of the party).

    I will fix it so that Iuz can't do that, but I just wanted to acknowledge that it isn't exactly fair to have one set of rules for the Player and another set of rules for the NPCs.

    A lot of people complain that TOEE cheats, but it is good to note that sometimes this cheating is for the benefit of the player.

    - Livonya
     
  15. taltamir

    taltamir Established Member

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    actually its only while they ARE animated that they cannot be resurrected.
    If you unanimate them, by say, destroying the corpse, then you can resurrect the character through the various resurrection means.

    Usually to resurrect an animated character you have to destroy the the now undead creature it is, and then use true resurrection (in liue of having a whole corpse).

    This isnt as much cheating in the pc's favor as it is avoiding a whole mess of problems. Basically, you need a real live dm or a TON of scripting. (so they lost said undead, now they have to bring in the scrying magics to find it, hunt it down, and destroy it... dont even start about counter scrying). You can make a whole game just out of that.
     
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