Let's Talk About Hickory Branch

I can't recall if Allyx posted this publically or not, but he has become semi-retired from managing the CMF again due to continuing RL issues. Therefore, I have at least temporarily assumed the role of CMF guy, and by extension potential Co8 v6 and rebalancement guy. I am in the middle of some fairly aggressive modding for a variety of things in ToEE right now, so a new CMF is probably a ways off, but it hasn't been abandoned.

Inasmuch as I have been pondering rebalancement, I was thinking of proposing to reposition HB yet again. The short version of the overall concept, as yet in its infancy, is this: put HB at the very-near beginning of the game; put Verbomod near the end of the game (after Hedrack, before Nodes and Zug); leave Moathouse Respawn in the middle where it is. This would in theory help to rebalance by lessening the XP bulge in the middle of the game by two-thirds, add XP to the end of the game (where it becomes hard again with the suped up bosses), and in the case of HB, add XP to the start of the game (where it is hard), and possibly offer a substitute for the dreaded Hommlet fed-exing, which starts the game off in such lackluster fashion. It would also provide a more RP-appropriate set of tasks for evil-aligned parties, who wouldn't likely be interested in gathering converts for St. Cuthbert and whatnot.

Now, being as this thread is about HB specifically, here is the plot that I had in mind for that (since it doesn't yet have one): Hommlet leaders have knowledge that an unaccountably well-organized and abnormally integrated group of raider type humanoids (consisting of low level monsters - goblins and kobolds, and maybe a few skeletons) is conducting persistent raids along trade routes in the area east of Hommlet, possibly in conjunction with the existing bandit reports, and are encamped at an area known as Hickory Branch. Scouting reports have shown this group to be a bit too large for the badgers and/or local militia to take on themselves. Plus, it's not known where their organization comes from. The party goes there at the behest of the quest-giver (whomever that might be) and fights a variety of groups of these monsters. (This could actually be challenging for a level 0 party.) The party ultimately discovers that their leader, maybe located in the HB crypt, is some above average intelligence undead creature - just a zombie most likely, but one with an identity and some dialogue. Specifically, he could be the reanimated corpse (reanimated through whatever means - maybe Lareth did it and put him to work out there) of a former bandit leader type, hence his ability to marshal the base level humanoids. We could give him some daunting name and make him challenging enough that fighting him serves as the 'boss battle.' Maybe get HK to do a custom portrait for him to make him unique, and add a handful of hobgoblins as his entourage. The party kills him, clears out HB, gathers a bit of treasure and heads back to Hommlet and the awaiting accolades of its citizens. Now that they've shown they can take care of small problems, the party is ready for something a bit more serious in the form of the Moathouse.

This would of course mean that krunch has to re-mob HB yet again in fairly dramatic fashion. We would also have to substantially reduce treasure. And the overall concept of HB as a challenging mid-level adventure would have to be scrapped in favor of something less ambitious. But I believe it would help the early game significantly as detailed above, and it would add to the game story, and it would be a place to showcase Co8's custom kobolds, which don't really appear elsewhere in ToEE in significant fashion.

So ...

@krunch - What do you think? If you were game, I'd be willing to handle the story-related stuff - dilaogue, quest hooks, etc. - for you. You of course have the authority to either green-light this or not, being as it's your mod.

@everybody else - Like the idea? Hate it? See lots of pros? See lots of cons? Got other ideas? Let's hear what you have to say.

One last thing: krunch, as reward for your cooperation, I'd also be willing to come up with a new custom soundtrack for you for the HB maps. Something morose and undead-y.

 

Speaking of this, I'm given to understand that krunch has a new version of the crypt map, as polished up by VP. So that should be very nice.

I too am keen on getting a new outdoor map for HB for the same reasons HK stated, plus I don't like the idea of us re-using resources from other games. To that end, I was wondering if a new outdoor area could be built from existing ToEE resources, like Ted has done with KotB maps. Or, as HK suggests, let him have a go at polishing up what's there. I'd really like to have something that's not beholden to Diablo or whatever in any way, though, so if HK were to do any polishing, maybe it could be done over something else that's 'new,' so to speak, like a custom krunch or Ax Thrower framework style map.

 

Funny, I was thinking of precisely the ruined house map myself, but as the entrance to the crypt.

Re: the leader, are vampires even allowed to be low level? I'm rather partial to the idea of him being moreso a soldier of some sort, being as HB is combat-heavy in nature and his group would theoretically be raiders. Plus, we've already got the priest-as-leader thing at Emridy. Imagine a zombie in full battle armor, with a nasty disposition and a punishing maul to match. Maybe in life he was a prized officer in Lareth's troops, so much so that it was worthwhile to go to the trouble of reanimating him. He could be said to retain all of his combat expertise (not the feat, specifically), but none of his former humanity, limited as it may have been before. In other words, a soulless, merciless, and utterly dead battle general that likes 'life' better on the other side. :nervous: All we'd need to top him off is a properly modulated voice set that adds a rattle to his throat and a demonic undertone to his low-frequency range.

We could certainly do away with any skeletons and just limit his troops to humanoids, btw.

 

In 3.0+ you can add the vampire template to any creature IIRC, and of any level, they do retain combat abilities they knew in life, gain undead immunities (and a CR boost of +2) to go with thier level draining natural attacks (which could be modded in with a little work and flair) and thier racial disadvantages, but who wants to walk in the sunshine anyway?

From a game rules perspective, a vampire boss is more likely than a semi-intelligent zombie boss, perhaps Lareth used a scroll of create undead to make him? Or simply encountered a vamp and rebuked him.

 

Well, whatever we might call it, let's keep it simple. In application, it needn't be anything more than a fighter, basically. The rest is just story to enrich the plot. I would think he would look no different than a fighter in-game because he'd be wearing armor and so on.

I'm kind of put-off by the vampire idea because it seems too prosaic, for one. Especially for the ToEE early game. Whatever the party discovers at the heart of HB should be interesting but not all that dangerous or monolithic at that stage. Plus, vampires are just, I don't know...I associate them with games like VtM when I think of them now. Plus, ultimately again, it doesn't need to be anything more than just an undead guy who's in charge over there. Levels and draining effects and all that are unnecesary complications, imo. It should hurt a little more to fight him than a regular guy just because he hits hard, and that's it. And he should be interesting to encounter because he's got a backstory and some dialogue, not because he's got x levels of y skill and x percent chance to do y critical hit range thing or whatever, etc., etc. Know what I mean?

Anyway, we should probably hear what the captain has to say before we get too far along. Good input though.

 

A third vampire for ToEE? :no:

Otherwise I for one like this idea

 

You needn't worry about the crypt map at all, HK, because it's already been/being retouched by VP.

I see krunch has been here and not replied, btw, like in the days of the TotWC discussion. krunch, we've all got lives to lead here, and I for one don't particularly appreciate being put off, especially when all you'd need to do is say 'yea,' 'nay,' or 'hold on I'm busy atm.' I'm not going to play this game a second time, so if you don't respond during your next visit to the boards I'll consider the idea a no-go and we'll begin pondering other workarounds. At that point, you will be out of the loop. I should warn you also that there's no guarantee HB can just remain where it is if it somehow doesn't accomodate the neccesary rebalancing.