Initiative useless?

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by ifrook, Jan 18, 2014.

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  1. ifrook

    ifrook Member

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    initiative is only importand at the begining of the battle??
     
  2. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    Initiative Checks:

    At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative check. An initiative check is a Dexterity check. Each character applies his or her Dexterity modifier to the roll. Characters act in order, counting down from highest result to lowest. In every round that follows, the characters act in the same order.

    If two or more combatants have the same initiative check result, the combatants who are tied act in order of total initiative modifier (highest first).

    Flat-Footed:

    At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed. Barbarians and rogues have the uncanny dodge extraordinary ability, which allows them to avoid losing their Dexterity bonus to AC due to being flat-footed.

    A flat-footed character can’t make attacks of opportunity.

    Inaction:

    Even if you can’t take actions, you retain your initiative score for the duration of the encounter.
     
  3. Oleg Ben Loleg

    Oleg Ben Loleg Established Member Supporter

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    I think you could say so, BUT that makes quite often all the difference. Especially in tricky battles I choose to reload when the initiative is not in favoure for me. So my cleric/wizard can summon a monster as a meat sheald or use a web spell before opposing bug bear can use his initiative to get close enough to chop you to peaces.
     
  4. ErikModi

    ErikModi Member

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    Initiative seems like the most important trait in the whole game when you're facing a horde of undead and your cleric goes dead last.
     
  5. HeJason

    HeJason JK2 Deity

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    Improved initiative is the 1st feat I get with any PC. Going 1st, especially at the lower levels is important, because if you dont go 1st, you may not live long enough to even get a turn. :thumbsup:
     
  6. TarMynastyr

    TarMynastyr Member

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    Correct me if Im wrong but I think Intelligence also applies to initiative rolls?

    But like everyone said, Initiative is FRIGGIN IMPORTANT!!

    I don't count the number of times when my Sorcerer would insta-die to that damned assassin sent by Smigmal after you sell Lareth's stuff because the assassin started first and sneak attack damage applied!
     
  7. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    Intelligence has no effect on your initiative in game, but your dexterity bonus certainly does.

    I agree about improved initiative being very important early on, who couldn't use an additional +4 to their initiative.
     
  8. maalri

    maalri Immortal

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    The only character that I DON'T give Improved Initiative to fairly early in a game is my Ranger.

    She has to take Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot feats just to be of ANY good (and I STILL think this should negate the "Cover" penalty of -4!!) and then I give her focus in her bow.

    I just use her to pick off any remaining enemies at the end of the round, or if she get's lucky enough to go quicker than an enemy, kill them before thier turn.
     
  9. Daryk

    Daryk Veteran Member

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    By the SRD, Improved Precise Shot negates cover, but nobody has yet figured out how to implement it in the game engine. From everything I've read, it's much trickier to pull off than it sounds.
     
  10. maalri

    maalri Immortal

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    Couldn't it just be set to add a +4 to the shot? Well, I guess you have to flag it to add ONLY when a cover penalty is applied, or else you might get some nice bonuses.

    I will always stand by my position that it is idiocy to have 3 Feats just to be able to truly fire into combat with no negatives, 2 is bad enough!
     
  11. Daryk

    Daryk Veteran Member

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    Like I said, it's apparently trickier than it sounds. I mitigate the cover problem by only using one melee character and five archers.
     
  12. Corwyn

    Corwyn Gnoll Pincushion

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    Cover isn't a penalty against the accuracy of the attacker. It's an Armor Class bonus for any defender smart (or lucky) enough to stand behind a rock or tree or person when being attacked, whether missile or melee. It's like saying my leather armor has improved to banded or splint armor because it's now more difficult for the attacker to cause me injury. The Cover bonus (i.e., increased AC for the defender) means the attacker may have hit the target, but the thicker armor ("cover") prevented injury .... Conceptually difficult, I know, because AD&D has never distinguished "hitting" a target from "injuring" a target. Lots of other game systems make two determinations, first the accuracy of the attacker, then second, the damage resistance of the defender. Cover (like all AC) is effectively pure damage resistance; or in AD&D 3.5 lingo, a "deflection" bonus, like wearing a ring of protection.

    In this case, you are suggesting either:
    - no attacker penalty for "firing into melee" (picking out one target among many),
    - or, no defender bonus for having improved the effectiveness of "armor",
    -or, Precise Shot being +8 "to hit", basically providing +4 accuracy to overcome targeting difficulties in addition to +4 penetration power to overcome the target's enhanced armor.

    Or, I suppose, we could revert to pre-Advanced D&D and play Basic Rules. Hey, wasn't that the rules set of the original Keep on the Borderlands??
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2014
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