Increase spell slots

Use Magic Device is checked when a character uses a scroll or wand of a spell they cannot learn. If that character is able to learn the spell from the scroll or wand, they do not need the skill to use them.

The DC for Use Magic Device is 20 + the scroll/wand's effective caster level. Say for example, you're trying to use a Stinking Cloud scroll scribed by a level 14 Wizard. The Use Magic Device DC will be 34 in this case.

Which means, if you're scribing your own scrolls, you're gonna need to keep investing in it for it to remain useful.

Unlike spells, scrolls and wands require no concentration check. Concentration is only called when the character takes damage while casting a spell or when trying to cast a spell defensively.

TBH, Use Magic Device is more of a Rogue thing, not a Bard one. Bards already learn spells which means they can use some scrolls and wands without needing the skill. That said, wands and scrolls are useful on casters in general as a backup option for when they run out of spells or don't want to waste any spells in a certain encounter.

 

Ah thanks a lot Goshi! That makes a lot of sense.

However, just to clarify a couple things:

Well lets say I have a general purpose Wizard (meaning he doesn't have any excluded schools of magic) who scribes his own Mage Armor scrolls and tends to keep one in his inventory all the time. When combat ensues he casts it, and then all his slots are used for offensive spells like magic missile.

In that case, given the Wizard CAN learn Mage Armor, there should be no chance for the scroll casting to fail? Even if he is taking damage?

This would also lead me to conclude that, a good strategy with a Mage (maybe alternate versions with a cleric, bard, druid or sorcerer) is to always keep a couple of scrolls scribed in your inventory for those surprise encounters when some baddy spawns right on top of the mage. For example, one of the offensive touch spells like Shocking Grasp and Mage Armor would seem to be useful, because if I'm understanding the rules: if the character can learn the spell, there is no chance for it to fail when cast from a scroll?

So I'm guessing that certain spells are considered to be common to multiple different disciplines of magic? For example, I noticed that Obscuring Mist is both a cleric and a Mage spell. Charm Person is both a Bard and a Mage spell (as well as sorcerer if memory serves, might even be a cleric spell).

It would be interesting to see a list of all the spells that have instances in multiple different casting disciplines, as those would be the most generally useful scrolls to scribe.

 

That's right, they can use the scroll without any chance of failure.

In PnP, I carry around loads of scrolls for that reason. If a certain encounter requires a spell that I didn't prepare ahead of time, that scroll I scribed earlier is a godsend. ToEE is no different in this regard... well except the fact that other than the random encounters I know every encounter like the back of hand, and thus know which spells prepare beforehand... *sigh* nothing beats the 1st playthrough =/

That is correct. Both a Wizard and a Bard can use a Charm Person scroll without needing the Use Magic Device skill. This applies to all spells used by multiple classes.

One thing I forgot to mention is, that if a scroll or wand is of a Wizard's barred school (Even if its not an arcane scroll), the Wizard cannot use it at all.

 

Thanks a ton for all your rules clarifications. You are a estute D&D rules lawyer! :thumbsup:

BTW, did you ever play "Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay?" I'm guessing not, as the game seems to have virtually died by the mid 1990s.

The "Enemy Within Campaign" for that game is highly acclaimed as "the best" PnP RPG campaign ever Might be kind of fun to do a ToEE version of that campaign, though I have no idea if it woult be one year, two years or 10 years of work for me.

I GMed a group of guys about 3/4 of the way through that campaign about 20 years ago. Good times.

 

I have to say I kinda disagree here. Bards have almost as much skill points to distribute as Rogues, and Use Magic Item skill should definitely be maxed imo. With high enough UMI skill, Bards can fulfill the role as your generic party spell caster by being able to read any scroll or use any wand. Combined with their other abilities this makes them quite OP in ToEE.

Combine the Bard with 1 level of Wizard, and then they can write ANY level arcane spell into their spellbook (with enough Spellcraft skill and stacked Scholar Kits), AND scribe those same spells as scrolls to read (even spells of higher level than they normally can know). Well, technically a Wizard can do this as well, but that takes up a party slot.

The reason why the Bard can read the high-level scrolls while a Wizard has trouble is that UMI is a cross-class skill for the Wizard (ie. half as good), while the Bard gets the full skill benefit (and a lot more skill points to distribute as well).

One thing you should be aware of if you do this, though, is any scroll a Bard scribes from his spellbook is the same level as the spell. While scrolls that he scribes from his Bard spell list will match his Bard level. You can't know the same spell as both Bard and Wizard. So it is still important to choose which spells the Bard learns as a Bard (for example, you probably want spells that require pass enemy DC or fail such as Charm Person or Tashas Hideous Laughter to be Bardic), and which ones go into his Wizard spellbook (for example spells that don't require DC rolls like Wizard Armor or Eagles Splendor).

One strange thing I've noticed is that Bards can only UMI-read Divine Scrolls if the spell contained on the scroll is knowable by a Bard (ie. Cure Light Wounds is readable, Raise Dead is not). Although sometimes if a Cleric or Druid writes a scroll that a Bard should be able to know, the bard still can't read it (bug).

There is more discussion about using a Bard in ToEE over at GoG's ToEE forum.

If anyone is interested, I made a Google Docs spreadsheet with all the Wizard spells listed by school, plus indicating which spells are duplicated by other classes here.

There is also this Spell Filter over at d20.org that I have found is pretty handy.

 

Ah very cool! Thanks for those links.

 

Another thought about this: as I said above, I think ToEE is bugged in that arcane and divine casters can't read each others scrolls. For example, Stoneskin is both arcane as well as divine and a domain power. But if a cleric scribes a stoneskin scroll, a wizard can't read it. Sort of makes sense from a roleplay standpoint I guess, but it means the whole multiple-casting discipline thing you are wondering about doesn't work.

Exception: If both a Wizard and a Cleric each scribe a Stoneskin scroll, and the cleric gives his to the Wizard, the scrolls stack in the Wizard's inventory (the divine cleric spell is transformed to an arcane spell readable by the Wizard). If the Wizard then gives the scroll back to the Cleric, the Cleric no longer can read his own scroll!

 

I'm a bit late to the party, but I'm not quite sure this is a bug. There "could" be some bugs in the scroll reading code, but I don't think this is one of them. Remember that there are 2 types of spells, divine and arcane. If a spell is located in both an arcane and a divine casters list then what determines it's casting type is the class that casts it. If a cleric casts it then it is a divine spell, if a wizard casts it then it is an arcane spell. Therefore in this case if a cleric scribes a divine version of stoneskin then a wizard cannot use the scroll because it is not arcane. This is intended and fully supported by raw. So remember any of the spells that show up on domain lists that are also listed in arcane spell lists, they are still cast by a cleric and considered Divine in that he casts them through the power of his deity, not the same way a wizard/sorcerer/bard does. To take this further, it works that way with bards. Even though they get some healing spells, the Bard is an arcane caster and therefore those healing spells are actually arcane.

Also if you take a single level of a caster class it allows you to use wands and scrolls of that class, however there is one thing to remember. You must have a high enough casting stat in whatever that class uses for spells or it won't even show up on that list. Ergo you need at least 11 wis to cast level 1 cleric scrolls and 15 wis to cast a 5th level scroll like raise dead. I had forgotten about this when trying to cast raise dead from a scroll until I realized my wisdom was too low. It works the same way for all casters. If there is a bug, it's probably related to the game getting confused between trying to cast a scroll via the class feature or UMD. With a UMD of at least 1 all scrolls should at least show up, without UMD you should only see those that you have the casting stat to actually cast.