"Humble NPCs" patch

Looks like any other call in computer assembly language. Push some parameters, call some function, get a result (usually from eax register, if there is one value returned) and do something with it...

There is one function that I've seen when I was dealing with dll, which serves as a dice roller for a lot of different things. It is located at :10038B60. Takes 3 parameters - how many times to roll, dice size, and umm... base on which to add the generated value (usually 0). It doesn't actually generate random number itself, for that it calls another function (located at :10038DF0) with 2 parameters (1, dice size) - as in (min, max). Now this function might be that Twister thing. Can't say I really care.

 

No, I won't add this to my mod.

If you want to do it then do it, but this mod is a cheat and I don't think a cheat should be standard.

This mod allows you to steal everything from every NPC with no repercussions. It basically makes the game too easy as you can just go around taking all the good items from every NPC in the early game.

It is great that Drifter made it, but I don't want cheats to be standard with my mod. Again, if you want it then just add it in yourself.

Also, this mod will remove special features/events that are available for certain NPCs.

- Livonya

 

It is a pity for special events but still..... sometimes it is really irritating to have NPCs looting. A waste of time, items and lack of reality in the game.
Liv, I think that only a looser would go to recruit NPCs only to grab their equipment and that that patch would have no real effect on the game, but still maybe I'm wrong and if you see it like an unbalanced compromise between fun and comfortableness, you're right of wishing to keep it away from your mod.

 

I really don't like the sound of that.
Besides, such logic is false. You can kill someone with butter knife, but that doesn't mean butter knives should be prohibited.
Point is, I didn't intend this to be cheat. I just give freedom. What you do with that freedom - go looting every npc you find, or play game exploring npcs - something you never did before because it was too annoying - it's up to you to choose. If you strip npcs from items and dump them, you might as well use console. Which is built into game, so does this mean this game has cheat as standard?

Bah...

As for including or not including this into your (or anyone elses) mod, I don't object either way.

 

Drifter: I'm sure Liv didn't mean to belittle your accomplishments. But "this mod is a cheat" was certainly not a very diplomatic way of expressing her views.

This mod is much more than a cheat. There are scores of people who want to have COMPLETE control over their NPCs, like in the BG games. This mod is the answer to their prayers.

Anyway, I'll probably add this to the next Co8 mod pack, as an additional installation option.

 

My remark was not meant as an insult. Your work is great.

However, I still think this mod is a cheat.

There is absolutely no reason why you should be able to take NPC's equipment unless they agree to it.

Some NPCs have unique equipment that they would NEVER give away. But with this mod you can just take their stuff.

Also, I want NPCs to loot coins. Making it so NPCs don't loot anything is not what the NPCs agree to when they join your party. Changing it so they don't loot coins is cheating the NPCs. They agree to join for a certain portion of the loot and then your mod prevents that.

Again, your work is great, but I don't like the effect of this mod. I simply don't think it makes sense for the player to be able to take everything from the NPCs.

It allows cheating and lowers the difficulty of the game by allowing you to recruit higher level NPCs for no cost.

I simply don't see the point.

Again, if people like it then great, I have no problem with that, but I don't want to add it to my mod as I personally don't like the way it works.

That is just personal taste and not some criticism of your work.

- Livonya

 

I was aware of POSSIBLE exploitations when making this. Sure you can loot everything from them, and the cost of their stuff will cover the cost of their recruitment. But point is, if you can do something, it doesn't mean you have to. You can take, but you can give too - and that's what you should do anyway, upgrading their stuff, giving them powerfull magic items you find - if we were to discuss roleplaying aspect, I believe this more than covers their share. You can give them backup weapon, shield... and why should they waste precious inventory space on coins on stupid cheap stones anyway or overload themselves with crap stuff trotting through the countryside. You see point in that? True, they could have some precious items, family heirloom and so on, some npcs in BG had that too. But why should they stick to their basic shield +1, when there are more powerfull stuff instead? Why should they make it hard for you to help them? Anyway, if I could code in special exceptions for some cases, I'd gladly do it. Maybe I'll be able to do it in future.
And I certainly would agree to have npcs wearing very basic / non magic starting equipment just like in BG. That would eliminate possible abuse of looting them for profit. Even if I find it rather unnecessary. Because in life the case most of the time is - there are no unbalancing things, just unbalanced persons.

In my opinion, this whole thing is bogus. If they wanted to make npcs special, give them personality, blah blah blah, they should've done it BG style. That was special. And these 'features' are just lazy creator's easy way out and pain in the ass for players. It's much easier, less time consuming and therefore cheaper to code in some stupid restrictions or features which make it "as if npcs think and behave on their own" (which they failed to do anyway) than to hire writers and do thousands of lines of various dialogs for npc interactions, create special quests for each of them and so on.
The idea of creating pseudo-multiplayer for singleplayer is absurd.
And that's what they tried to do, make the feeling that you're sitting and playing with real human players, right? They join your party, but trade, loot and take a piss on their own, wow. So why not make real multiplayer instead?
And if they make the game singleplayer, than some aspects of it remain un-roleplayable, it's inevitable. In some ways it's more of a D&D combat simulator than true roleplaying game, so no point in pretense. And I want total micromanagement of my party.
As for personal tastes, of course you have the right to think otherwise.

 

I have Fruella, Burne, and Spugnoir and they don't loot. They don't autosell at the merchants, but they wont drop any of there start equipment and they can't have any dialogue with a merchant. So how is it they can be looted for everything, I don't see that happening. I've got patches thru temple.dll. I'm kind of confused here(not unusal).

 

If I really want to cheat I import items using the console, I see this patch as...

I find it really frustrating when NPCs clutter up their inventories

 

You don't have to 'drop' the item on the ground, literally. Try dragging the item onto the portrait of any other party member, or to the shop window (after you have opened the merchant's window with any of your PCs, you can still click on the portrait of your NPC to activate him and transfer item from his inventory to shop). Does that work?

 

Dragging the item to a portrait worked good. Open the merchant window with a pc, swithed to npc and the merchant window goes away. No big deal. I really like this. This looting issue has been nothing but a confusing, nightmarish, pita since day one. Now there is real control and it WORKS!! How or whether or not a player uses it is up to them. I marry MY Fruella, and I buy her chainmail and a shield and we rocknroll. I accept responsibility for her. I'm also very protective of my wizards, especially Burne. If you're going to use npcs, then make it work for you. Not some cheap one time looting episode.

 

Clicking on the npc. What #'s?

 

this mod would have been a godsend to the latter part of my last play-through, and i'm not talking about using it for cheating.

basically, what Zaxis did was clutter his inventory with 1 of each different type of gem/gold chain/fancy doo-dad (etc.). and he NEVER sold any of them at the merchants. i wanted to give him various scrolls/wands/potions, but he never had any free slots. towards the end, i was unable to switch weapons for him because there were no free slots to stick his crossbow/buckler so he could switch to his rapier.

is this realistic (for a D&D henchman), or the sign of a well-designed game by intelligent folk? nope... which is why a "hack" like this (among the million other "hacks" and "cheats" posted to this forum and in the various "fan fix" packages) is necessary... to provide for a realistic game experience by working around the million bugs and design flaws left by the apparently incompetent troika design crew.

Drifter's logic makes perfect sense, and that is exactly the reason i would use this mod - micromanagement. let's drop the pretenses, ToEE is all about micromanagement, else they wouldn't have implemented a turn-based combat engine.

 

All Burne has left in his inventory is his wand of magicmissile and 200sp. Everything else was sold and part of the money was used to buy Fruella a Belt of Giant Strength+6. Is Burne mad. Fruella keeps the bugbears and gnolls out of his face so he can cast his fireball spells. He's a rich wizard anyway. At least now you can do stuff that will benefit the party overall. Carrying around a bunch of stuff that never gets used, but could be of benefit somewhere else is no good. I like the idea of being able to move things around. It adds an option/flexibility that wasn't there before. If it helps the party be better and stronger, Ill use it.
Yes , there is lots of room for abuse just like the console and other aspects of the game. It's not like getting Fragarach at 1st level in Hommlet! Yeah, it's cheatin in it's own way I guess, but a whole lot of people will use it.