How I find the children?

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Speeder, Mar 23, 2014.

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  1. bigwave13

    bigwave13 Member

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    Okay - I'll check the statuses as soon as I have some time.

    I can tell you now that I have the Advanced Factfinder : Rackham reputation, and that I THINK I've tried talking to the captain with just my party, with just Panatheas, and with all three. I don't remember off hand if I did it with just Boroquin or just Rackham though.

    Thx
     
  2. bigwave13

    bigwave13 Member

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    OK, here's what I got:

    game.global_flags[533] 0
    game.global_flags[535] 1
    game.global_flags[537] 1
    game.global_flags[538] 0
    game.global_flags[541] 1
    game.global_flags[542] 0
    game.global_flags[543] 0
    game.global_vars[535] 3
    game.global_vars[536] 6
    game.global_vars[542] 3
    game.global_vars[543] 0
    game.global_vars[544] 0
    game.global_vars[545] 2
    game.global_vars[549] 0
    game.global_vars[550] 2
    game.global_vars[551] 0
    game.global_vars[552] 0
    game.global_vars[553] 0
    game.global_vars[554] 1
    game.global_vars[555] 0
    game.global_vars[556] 0
    game.global_vars[557] 0
    game.global_vars[559] 0
    game.global_vars[560] 0
    game.global_vars[561] 0
     
  3. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Alrighty, based on your reports, here's what the game thinks.

    First of all, if you have the Advanced Factfinder : Rackham reputation, that means you've found two pieces of evidence of the three you need. This explains why Captain Abiram doesn't have much to say and why you can't tell him you've solved the case - you haven't.

    Anyway, Rakham is your man, so I've highlighted the pertinent Rakham flags and vars below.

    Global flags:

    You haven't talked to Panathaes while he was unconscious.
    Boroquin won't talk to you anymore.
    You cast Fear or Cause Fear on Rakham.
    You didn't cast Charm Monster or Charm Person on Boroquin.
    Rakham confessed.
    Boroquin did not confess.
    Panathaes did not confess.

    Global variables:

    You accepted the tunnels job from Captain Abiram.
    You've met both stewards, Panathaes was activated, you met Panathaes, and both kids were activated.
    Rakham is the kidnapper.
    You have no evidence against Panathaes.
    You have no evidence against Boroquin.
    You have two pieces of evidence against Rakham.
    You haven't turned Boroquin or Rakham in to Captain Abiram.
    Rothbert and Becka were in your party and then left.
    Panathaes has not joined and left your party.
    You have 0 pieces of physical evidence against Panathaes.
    You have 0 pieces of physical evidence against Boroquin.
    You have 1 piece of physical evidence against Rakham.
    You have 0 pieces of testimony against Panathaes.
    You have 0 pieces of testimony against Boroquin.
    You have 0 pieces of testimony against Rakham.
    Rakham didn't narc anybody out.
    Boroquin didn't narc anybody out.
    Panathaes didn't narc anybody out.


    So we can see from the flags and variables that the evidence you've compiled against Rakham consist of his confession, and one piece of physical evidence (presumably the child's locket, from what you said).

    Naturally, the types of evidence you can collect (as Abiram explains) are confessions, testimony, and physical evidence. You already have a confession and one piece of physical evidence, so you either need to add physical evidence or testimony of others.

    Possible physical evidence: the child's locket and Panathaes' notes. You have the locket. Did you read Panathaes' notes?

    Possible testimony: from either Panathaes or Boroquin. You've got neither, and you won't get it from Boroquin now since you apparently pissed him off. That leaves Panathaes. But how do you get good info from a crazy guy?

    There do seem to be some inconsistencies, which AFAIK are likely down to nothing more than ToEE's occasional flakiness, like you say you knocked out Panathaes but the game doesn't think you did (actually no, the game doesn't think you talked to him while he was, hint-hint), and I think you should be able to turn him in to Abiram regardless of whether he kidnapped the chldren, since he's an escaped prisoner. Could be we somehow haven't allowed for that contingency in the scripting/dialogue.

    The evidence part of this quest is designed so that there's not only three pieces in existence, all of which you automatically need. There are potentially five pieces of evidence you can collect altogether against the kidnapper.
     
  4. bigwave13

    bigwave13 Member

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    OK - that all makes sense, though I know I DID cast Charm Person on Boroquin, but all he would do was smile at me and walk away, so I don't know why it thinks I didn't...

    FWIW, I do have Panatheas' notes and did read them. I remember trying to "use item" them to see if they would get entered into evidence to no avail - is the game supposed to recognize them as a piece of evidence (since he says he saw "the black robed devil" bring the children down) or not (because he's nuts)?.

    I'm pretty darn sure I TRIED to talk to Panatheas while he was unconscious, but the game didn't let me. (Maybe I'll try again.)

    thx
     
  5. bigwave13

    bigwave13 Member

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    So, I just went back to my saved point and checked. I do have P's notes (and used them again, just to be sure). I KO'd Panatheas again - both via non-lethal damage and via sleep.

    Click on the "talk" option with a PC, but choosing P as the target of the talk doesn't do anything. Just exits the "talk" cursor.

    SO - if Boroquin is ticked off (probably 'cause I KO'd him at one point?), I can't talk to P while unconscious/sleeping, and the notes aren't getting recognized... I'm screwed, aren't I? :(
     
  6. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Hm, I think I see an error with the evidence counter script. Do you by any chance have a save from before you ever read the notes? It will only register the notes as evidence once upon reading them (which is correct, otherwise you could read the notes three times and solve the case), but it will also only register them as evidence if you have one or fewer pieces of evidence already. In your case, you have the locket, and then the notes get added as physical evidence but they don't get added as overall evidence because at that point you're at two pieces so the script doesn't run.

    Anyway if you have such a save, I could give you a new file and you could test if it works but if not guess you should just increment the variable manually and give yourself the rep.
     
  7. bigwave13

    bigwave13 Member

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    I don't have a save that would work - how do I "increment the variable"? (Not a code/console proficient guy.)
     
  8. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Open the console and input the following:

    Code:
    game.global_vars[554] = 2
    game.global_vars[545] = 3
    Then remove and add the right reputations like so:

    Code:
    game.party[0].reputation_remove(74)
    game.party[0].reputation_add(77)
    Then go see Captain Abiram.
     
  9. bigwave13

    bigwave13 Member

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  10. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    The reputations code had an extra space above (before the underscore), since fixed.
     
  11. bigwave13

    bigwave13 Member

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    Well, I think it worked - maybe. I talked to the Captain and can now say that Rackham did it (either directly, through the "I solved the kidnapping case" dialogue, or after saying I caught Panatheas). But when he asks me how I know, I just say "good bye" or "I'll be going"? That normal? Feels incomplete.
     
  12. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    No, you should be able to explain your evidence, so some flag or variable still isn't squaring up. Does he take Rakham and/or Panathaes at this point?
     
  13. Forgalz

    Forgalz Established Member

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    It also does not appeal to players who expect D&D core mechanics to work, but then learn that ToEE handles hiding checks in its own idiosyncratic way instead of doing opposed checks and somebody hardcoded a requirement for an insanely high Spot skill. For which the application of logic and reason do not prepare in the slightest. It also tends to break immersion.
     
  14. bigwave13

    bigwave13 Member

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    No, he won't take them. I try, but he asks how I know Rackham did it and then I only get leaving options.

    (Then again, they are currently both staying with the party because of charm person spells - would that matter?
     
  15. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    No, I don't think so. I'll have to look at Abiram's dialogue file again later.
     
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