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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by syarul, Oct 2, 2007.
Lol ^^; what do you guys think? Does modding make it more comical or fantasy RPG?
This is why I stick with the original, and spend my time attempting to lend an old-school flavor to the modding here. Gnome paladins & half-orc rangers be damned!
It's widely known that the old Gary dislikes 3º edition...mostly because they bought d20 system...
but personally i couldn't desagree more with their opinion. When i had 14 years old, i'd played for the first time D&D 2º Ed, and i liked it. Almost ten years later (at 22 or 23) played 3º edition for the first time...and THEN really enjoyed the game...
I lied if I say I started with 2nd Ed, but when got time to play D&D with 2nd Ed, there are truly big masses of gap between them.
We could simply echoed this by a fighter asking for lower price of chain mail suit from a merchant. For the merchant, lowering the price is never a good idea for well intricated chain mail. To his needs, sales is important, so why not sell a rusted chain mail sprayed by shinny metal paint. Anyway kids loves shinny metal stuff coz it looks cool ^^.
To my thoughts, I guess the role-playing games has suffered a lot by the fact it is consumed by people who wish greater wealth output. It does not create next Gygax, Ed Greenwood or Salvatore of that kind anymore. What we only have is thousand of mushroom spores grow on some wet bogs fantasizing living like an elves of centuries old, but in matter of days they died.
These fantasy universes are truly immense, but it lacks from fact most of the progenitors are at their peaks or to few. If you ask me, passion thrive better than wealth since it create the wealth itself. Probably in few decades we'll see something that we wont realize it's going to happen:shrug: Just my 2cent, cheers.
My best group of pnp players is in the Forgotten realms setting and consist in:
-An egiptyan looking male Aasimar 6º lvl Paladin (Lawful Good-of course) of a Lawful Good god
-A female human 9º lvl multyclass paladin 5/Templair 4 (LG) of LN god (the St Cuthbert version, but more good inclined)
-A male human 11º lvl multyclass monk 6 /crimson avenger 2/shintao monk 3 (LG) of an extremely pious LG god
-A male human 11º lvl multyclass fighter 5/ purple dragon 6 (LN) of a LG deity of paladins
-A male dwarf 8º lvl multyclass barbarian 6/ silverwood outrider 2 (NG) of the LG god Moradin
They are all muscle, none has any skill in magics, but they manage to go against all the odds an evils i throw in their path, wich solution they find?
Mostly diplomacy, good roleplaying, better combat tactics, great awareness of their capacities, and all thanks to the versatility of the system.
The monk could jump from horse to horse in combat and still be the most sensible character, the fighter is the pretty-boy leading face and still fearsome to their enemies, the paladins are shining beacons without having nothing in common between them, the dwarf it's a kind, generous being...their election of alignments has nothing to do without rules, (in fact playing LG in old editions was like a death sentence not to mention the stupid rigid rules for the CN or true N),it was their choice...
Most of what Gygax criticizes it's all of what 2º edition used to be; all right i've played old versions, but when played 3º Ed came to understand how rigid and restrictive the game was
I'm with Spike and Gygax on this one -- too many rules clutters up what can be an otherwise great gaming session. I like the spirit of the d20 rules, just not their cumbersome nature. The 4th edition coming out seems even worse, and moreso than 3e d20, seems to resemble nothing more than comic book superheroes.
I haven't played the second edition in PnP but I kind of like
the 3rd ed. In PC games like IWD, or BG I always found the
2nd ed. restrictions either stupid or unnatural... On the other
hand the 3rd ed's downsides are gaining power really fast and
combat being slow, fun but AWFULLY slow... it actually works
better in a computer game than in PnP... otherwise I love the freedom
of the new (soon to be outdated) edition. Of course, freedom may
lead to absurdities such as lawful good drow paladins (ARGH!!!! I'll
believe anything but this, unless it's a paladin of tyranny) or
half-orc wizards... but if one wants that kind of character one can
have it, even if it's absurd (and if it is, it'll get killed by the DM really
That's the beauty of 3ºEd, you COULD, of course, it's up to the DM allow such characters (i usually don't), so you got the choice, not a simple "NO, you can't because the book say so"
(besides, the tipical opinion of of "it's impossible that a dwarf becomes a wizard" it's because the people growe acustomed tho old rules, not for some logic (half orc wizard could me logic, theyre below standard intelligence, but still...)
I haven't played PnP since AD&D 1st Ed. The friend who taught me to play instructed that the rulebooks are a guide, not a master. The point of the game is to free the imagination, to live an exciting other life for a few hours at a time. With imagination, logic and reason, one can use what seems best and most appropriate for the group at hand. That's the dungeon master's task, and he must be quick and intelligent.
Some of the best play we ever had came not from a module, or a rulebook, but from our minds! I can see Gygax's point, and we all owe him alot. But it's up to the player's and the DM to make the game, not the book.
Exactly my point and what i think.
But the 2 Edition it's so restrictive that sometimes you could'n do this or that because the rules say so, and if you are allowed, the game unballances completely.
I remember that once we decided to start a high level campaign (12 lvl), so all other players choose varios characters (a fighter, a druid, etc) but i decided to play with a multiclass wizard/fighter elf, moreover, asked for a drow, and since theyre at least 7 or 9 level to be played (i don't remember well but it's something like that)i could do it; also multiclassing was at the same time, so it was very hard if you started at level one (for example, if you get 1000 xp, 500 go to one class, and 500 to the other), l, you'll get two levels at a time eventually, yes you had two classes but it was hard surviving to get that point...
but if you start a high level character you don't have to figh to reach to that point and have an enourmous advantage to the others characters, added that the only penalization of the drows it was'nt that they have the level -2 penalization, they just started a high level...
thath added to my INCREDIBLE luck (i roll two times the same rare itaem: a +1 scimitar of speed, each doubling my attacks) i had a powerful race with lots of abilities, combined to the strength and skill of a warrior which i bought the 2 weapons combat, the power of a high mage, and i had a character that could attack something like 12/13 times for round...and that could hasten himself!! I think that's not balance...of course, the DM had a few things to say and i accepted to lower my character after killing a kraken all by myself, in three rounds...
3ºED is much more balanced and wide...
I have not played pNp D&D in probably about 15 years. The last session was AD&D 1st Edition and several sessions prior to that were AD&D 2nd Edition.