Game Difficulty: Are The New Mods Making The Game Unbalanced?

In PNP, players are expected to pick up masterwork weapons around 2nd or 3rd level, as soon as they can afford them. Considering all the masterwork weapons are quest-based, and there's not a whole lot of gold to be found before leaving Homlett, I don't really see the masterwork weapons as a problem.

I do agree about the Traders being far too easy for their level, though. While I'm all for keeping true to the original PNP module, something could certainly be done to make them worth their XP value.

Web is super powerful because it's broken. Web is supposed to provide cover for creatures within it or firing through it, which means that ye old hit them with Web and then fire missiles at them trick shouldn't work.

 

Add self imposed no scribe scroll (as I do) and you'll further rise the challenge.

 

For my humble $0.02 I think this is the best solution globally, though it seems to my (non-modding) eyes to be the one involving the most work & brain power to implement.

I also think the fact that CR values are figured in D&D based on the supposition that the monsters/npcs the party fights are to be guided by wily human intelligence, and not ai, is the best argument for further reducing the xp award across the board in toee. These combats are by and large just not as hard as they would be pnp. This is obvious, I know, but I think the corollary that easier encounters should equal less xp is not so much so, at first glance.

So it seems to me that either encounters should be made harder (and by harder I mean more intelligent, or at least less broken as far as strategy goes) or xp should be brought down to reflect that--though I suppose the Troika reduction to 70% could be argued to already represent that decision. It's a judgement call, I know.

I hope this is in the right one of the split threads--sorry if it isn't. I'm also sorry if it seems like I'm telling other people what to do with their modding time--I'm just discussing amiably, that's all, hoping more input helps you reach your final decision.

 

I must be doing something wrong because I just went back to Hommlett with 6 severely wounded players and it took 6 days to heal. Temple level 2 is a "breeze", not in my book. Even my protos boosted Fruella has come very close to dying several times,(she lives on the edge anyway). Last time she beat the OgreChief and had 2 hp left to spare. So much for a uber super-powered group. The healer cleric runs out of spells. Too much damage. 5.0.2 is challenging, if played fair"n"square. You can't blame the power-gamer maniplulators for using what is available and say we HAVE to change this. The game can be very challenging, it's all in how you play it.

 

It was possible to play through the entire game from start to finish, no reloads or deaths, with five Wizards and no NPCs using the 25 point buy pre-Co8. I expect it's still possible now, though I haven't tested it. I do agree that min-maxing of characters through the all-18s method and such is part of the reason that the game feels too easy in places, but it was always a pretty easy game.

 

This I agree with; player tactics and approaches will make a big difference as far as how easy or tough we find ToEE.

 

I've played through with 4 PCs and 4 NPCs, post Humble NPCs patch. That was fairly interesting thanks to Teds work on making the NPCs more active. If they could actually pick stuff up I might be willing to do Protagonist+7 NPCs. Unfortunately it would require a full mod team and 6 months to a year to bring them up to BG2 standards as far as dialog is concerned, assuming we could find people to voice everyone. Even then, I'm not sure they can be scripted to start conversations with the PCs or one-another unless you use the "Talk" option on them with the rotary dial.

 

By the way, is it possible that in the end, one big balancing factor that was modded out is the follower looting? I mean, if you chose not to have followers in order to keep 100% of the loot to yourself, you were restricted to 5 PCs, and if you chose to have followers, you'd lose out on magic items, gold, jewelry, etc. (not to mention XP).

 

My point Gaear is that the game originally was designed for 5 pregenerated characters where you could roll away to get the best stats. You could guide their skills and feats to make them the most efficient they could. With an average party of 5, you have maybe one spellcaster, maybe a cleric, a thief and that leaves 2 possible heavy hitters. Remember, these are characters of MY creation, and their skills and stats will reflect this. With a party of 8 created characters, I can have much greater choice. I usually use 7. One is an elven fighter with a 20 dex to start that is specialized in the bow. By level 7 he hits at least 3 times for an average of 12 points per hit. I have one thief, one mage, one cleric that started as a fighter for better weapons, and 3 heavy fighters. Usually one with a greatsword, other with an axe, and the other is open to random choice. But each is carefully rolled, selected and skilled to make them deadly in what they do. Now imagine these 8 powerful and effective characters going to the moathouse for the first time. The games' design was to have 5 maybe 6 with a NPC.

I am only pointing this out, not saying it is detrimental. With less characters there is more XP per player and thus more crafting/gold to go around, so it is a catch 22. I guess my deep feeling is that the temple faction fights, which use to be tough, are not so anymore as my players are now at a level higher than the game anticipated.

I could opt out of the mods, but then why play the game anymore. To say not to do the extra content is a contradiction. Without it many would not still be here. And TOEE is the best version of D+D in game form I have seen.

But I love it nevertheless. I think most just wish it could continue forever and perhaps we are just trying to find a way.

 

As I understand it, people are saying the mods have un-balanced the game and made it too easy with excessive xp and treasure. PC's are attaining higher than normal levels and made it a breeze or cake-walk. And, somehow that needs to be fixed. So, are we in for a massive re-write and scripting or just complaing/debating?

 

There's not much difference, from a game world / story point of view, between the PCs and the NPCs, other than that your PCs have very little back story unless you give them one.

There's also no real reason most NPCs should demand a salary past a fair share of loot. Meleny and Fruella are married to a PC (despite the "funny shrew" writing for Fruella), Elmo and Otis want to investigate the Temple and need help to do so, Burne and Rufus should be looking to protect Hommlet. Gay Pirate (can't recall his name) and several others you rescue.

Even a Fair Share of the loot is already pretty much covered by maxing out the NPCs equipment in the same way you max out the PCs equipment.

Just my 2 pence.