Fix Suggestion: How to make rogues use ioun stones

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by taltamir, May 3, 2005.

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  1. lord_graywolfe

    lord_graywolfe Wolfman

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    i agree with it sounds great to me. i have no idea how to add the feature of the ioun stones floating around the head but it sure would look cool if someone can do it
     
  2. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

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    Hey lord high and mighty graywolfe think of your own posts and stop copying me
     
  3. 0rion79

    0rion79 Established Member

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    Yes, after all head is better than other slots since head is were items should go. Personally, I would like more the idea of keeping them active in the bag, since a character should be able to use at the same time both an helmet and a magic stone, but I already image henchmen that are selling them at the first shopkeeper. I don't think that keeping them in the bag would really steal so much space. I mean, after all how many magic youn stones a character would really need and how many of them is the player really ready to craft, loosing money and experience?
    If you accept an advice, it would be great of you may create one single helmet that works with stones like the golden orb with gems. A nice magic reward....
     
  4. Livonya

    Livonya Established Member

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    Why?

    Having a Bard/Rogue is a great combo and that just makes it really hard on that combo.

    I don't see the point in putting the thieves tools there.

    - Livonya
     
  5. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    to be honest I don't see the point either but the general concensus seems to be to change it, so I did.
     
  6. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

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    I guess I'm missing what makes a bard/rogue a great combo. The rogue levels detract from the bard's spellcasting and musical abilities without much benefit while the bard levels don't do anything to really enhance the rogue's abilities and slow his sneak attack progression. Plus, their BAB is absolutely horrible.
     
  7. Livonya

    Livonya Established Member

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    Massive skill points. Not everyone cares about BAB. BAB isn't that important as there are plenty of other ways to get this than from Class Levels and a bard isn't usually a front line combat character.

    Bard's can be all sorts of things and 1 or 2 levels of rogue will help them to be even more jack of all trades... then they can have decent skills in all the communications skills and be decent at rogue type skills... plus offer spell support.

    Both bard's and rogues benefit from the same attributes, so Dexterity, Intelligence, and Charisma are helpful to both of them.

    The sneak attack can be used with ranged weapons.

    To me it seems like a very logical choice, but that is just me. People have their play styles. For instance I would never in a million years have a fighter in my party (unless I hire a fighter NPC). And I would never play without a bard and a rogue or a rogue/bard.

    - Livonya
     
  8. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Does this mean no more headgear for PCs with Ioun stones? I don't dig that at all . . . headgear gives your people a visible identity.
     
  9. Livonya

    Livonya Established Member

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    I am at work.

    How many Ioun Stones are there?

    I think the best solution is to make multiple version.

    Why not just make duplicates that can go in the Head Slot and Thieves Tools slot.

    That makes more sense. You just add that to the crafter description and people can make what they want...

    If you want a head one then make a head one.

    If you want a thieves tool slot then make a thieves tool one.

    Hell you could just duplicate them and make them available for three different slots.

    Otherwise, no matter what is done someone won't be happy.

    - Livonya
     
  10. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    I like bard/rogues too, the bardic music depends not on bard levels but the perform skill, which is a class skill for rogues too, and who wouldn't want a rogue who can cast grease, then sneak attack enemies as they get up and also cast invisibility and cure spells on himself when things don't go as planned?
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2005
  11. taltamir

    taltamir Established Member

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    ok so...

    1. Let bardic instrument and theives tools share the instrument slot. This a bard/rogue will have to swap them occasionaly, but thats it. If possible make theives tools be equipable in both the instrument and belt slots, then it will allow theif/bard multiclassers to use both.

    2. Move ioun stones to head, and remove their theives instrument ability. An ioun stone is not a theif's tools, this was a quick and probably temporary workaround that just ended up sticking.

    3. Make ioun stones work from backpack, that way you could have more then one of them active. One could be put on the head slot, while the others would work from the pack.

    4. Consider making an animation for the stones to float around the head, this would be a really awesome flair.

    Now... are there any suggestions I am missing?
    I think doing those 4 things would work best. If someone disagrees on any of them, please say so and we could hold a vote.

    The reason I am not including other previous solutions is because back then many of those things were not suggested or considered, now that we have this course of action though... :)
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2005
  12. 0rion79

    0rion79 Established Member

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    Guys, sorry but it wouldn't be more easy to make a second version for thieves tools, named belt thieves tools, instead than many verisons of ioun stones?
    Except that for RPG reasons, the main advantage is that ioun stones are 6, thiefes tools just 2 (normal, masterwork). Just copy the raw, change ID, name and allocation and we'll have a bard/rogue (I like it too!) that will be able to equip both instrument and tools, or single class bards and single class thieves that equip both instrument and tools.
    it would be even better to make tools to work from backpack like familiars, since I don't see why a thief should keep his precious tools near the belt where they could get damaged more easily in combat than in the backpack.
    M.
     
  13. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    What armour bonus does the various helms give? I never did quite get that...
    Like any combo, it has attractions. But most rogue characters in the game, I think it is fair to say, are not also bards, and would benefit more from having their belt slot free to use, well, belts, than a bard/rogue is disadvantaged. After all, since he (or she ;-) can't do bardic music and theives skills simultaneously, the bard's instrument could be kept equipped and the theives tools brought in as necessary. Admittedly the same could be said for keeping a belt equipped, but surely its less of a hassle to just inconvenience the bard/rogue over the instrument slot than to inconvenience all rogues (including the bard/rogue) over the belt slot. Don't think of it as a instrument slot, think of it as a tool specialisation slot 8^D.
    Hey thats right. Why do bards get perform? The rulebook states "perform is used solely for increasing bardic music abilities".

    I think the question is, do we want to give up other headgear stuff for the ioun stones? Since we have the whole stacking issue, I think I am gonna vote that we use them from the inventory, that should be both easier and more convenient for using other stuff. But damn I would love that animation.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2005
  14. Morpheus

    Morpheus Mindflayer Veteran

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    You guys are aware that no amount of scripting would make the Ioun Stones actually float around a character's head? We'd obviously need new item models & animations for that. Until someone manages to figure out how to add those, that's a can't do.
     
  15. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    Allyx was thinking of adopting the existing animation for the 'magic stone' spell. Does that have 3 stones? I have never cast it, but the rules say it effects 3 stones.
     
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