Empowered Mirror Image

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by _doug_, Dec 1, 2020.

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  1. _doug_

    _doug_ Established Member

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    I am fixing empowered and maximized mirror image for Temple+. I wanted to get some thoughts about how to handle empower. Here is the spell description:

    https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mirrorImage.htm

    The description says there is a maximum of eight images. This could be applied before or after empowerment resulting in a final maximum or either 8 or 12. My thought is to go with 8 but I wanted to see what other people thought.
     
  2. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    So it creates, "1d4 images plus one image per three caster levels (maximum eight images total)" and its the 1d4 that gets empowered?

    Yeah, I think up to 8 makes sense. Tricky one.
     
  3. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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  4. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    They effectively make the point that it becomes 1.5 images per 3 CLs, but the argument for whether this trumps the cap can still go either way.

    I certainly wouldn't complain if it was 12, there is common sense to that, but I still think the cap is the cap.
     
  5. sigofmugmort

    sigofmugmort Established Member Supporter

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    Well, for my half-penny input. An Empowered Magic Missile does 1d4+1d2+1 foe 3-7 points. Empower just applies to the die roll, in this case 1d4, so an empowered mirror image would be 1d4+1d2+1/3 levels to a maximum of 8 for this level of a spell. Now, if you where to heighten it to raise the spell LEVEL the cap would theoretically be raised as per the rules for spell maximums

    and has anyone seen my mind?:confused:
     
  6. Endarire

    Endarire Ronald Rynnwrathi

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    @Sitra Achara
    Empowered magic missile does (d4+1) * 1.5 damage per missile. Empowered mirror image should likewise have its maximum number of images increased by 50%.
     
  7. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    Alleluia!
     
  8. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    Why? Does an Empowered Magic Missile get more than the "maximum of five missiles at 9th level or higher"?
    Actually, Sitra's link shows that the x50% includes 'bonus numbers', so becomes '+1.5 / 3 levels'. They link to an official FAQ on the matter.
     
  9. Endarire

    Endarire Ronald Rynnwrathi

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    I have never relied on the FAQ for rules clarifications.

    Note that an Empowered fireball does a maximum of 90 damage (10d6 * 1.5, or the equivalent of 15d6) and an Empowered false life gives (d10 temporary HP + 1 temporary HP per CL (max +10) ) * 1.5 total temporary HP to a maximum of 30. Mirror image should also have an increased maximum (12 images).
     
  10. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    People who do can ignore your opinions then.
    That's a better argument. :)
    Where are you getting this from? I mean, is that what currently happens in ToEE?

    EDIT: I am testing this in ToEE (where I have a pre-rolled Sorcerer with False Life for reasons I don't remember) - Sitra / Doug, some of these 'Temp HP' spells were bugged, did this one get changed in Temple+?

    2nd EDIT: Ok, my testing suggests this is not true for Co8 ToEE (I got a 14 with a 12th level Sorcerer) but IS true for Temple+ (I got a 24 with a 7th lvl Wizard), I take it there was a fix implemented? So what were the criteria? Surely just follow the same logic for consistency?
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
  11. _doug_

    _doug_ Established Member

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    Temple+ fixes empowered false life. It is not ambiguous how it should work. The max is for the bonus not the overall result. Mirror image aplies a max to the final number of images so it is confusing how empower should apply.

    I am now leaning toward going with 12 maximum images for empower.
     
  12. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    I get the distinction, but there seems to be a consensus among these various spells that Empower overrides maximums (or increases them 1.5). If you go with 12 I doubt anyone will complain.
     
  13. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    The cap of 8 images is not a "variable numberical effect", therefore not subject to an increase of 50% only the 1d4 is a variable numberical effect. An Empowered Mirror Image generates 1d4 x 1.5 images +1/3 caster levels to a max of 8 images. A 7th level caster (+2 images) would hit the cap of 8 if you roll a 4, for 6 additional images.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
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