differences between the module & Troika's computer game

Daryk · May 10, 2016

When I ran that module way back when, I had the PCs in terror of the longbow armed gnolls on the first level. They would actually sneak into lower levels of the dungeon for "easier" fights.

Oleg Ben Loleg · May 10, 2016

Corwyn said: ↑

The 1st ed. Temple (PnP) was MUCH more difficult (though not quite 'insanely' difficult) than ToEE 3.x crpg. For examples:
-Characters discovering the Moathouse would only be levels 1-2, 3rd at most. The entrances to the dungeon level were trapped with falling grates -- once entered, the low level characters had to fight their way out with no rest or relief. Except for Lareth, there was very slim loot; and the only Traders in Hommlet were nefarious spies who sent a 10th level Assassin who would attempt murder by stealth -- poisen or whilst sleeping, after gaining trust and joining the group.
-In addition to the aforementioned Fire Temple Salamander situation, the captain of the Fire temple troops wielded a Rope of Entanglement which could effectively Hold up to 8 humans -- impossible to escape physically. The Frost Brand was hidden under live coals and protected in a Detect Magic-proof box that also contained a scythe-blade trap (lose a hand, no saving throw) when attempting to reach for the sword. In other words, impossible to find unless you knew it was there, and then lose an appendage for your efforts. (It's okay -- lots of live coals nearby to cauterize the wound.)
-The Earth Temple boasted 4 Earth Elementals "of the largest size"; as I recall, they all had around 80+ hp and did something like 4-40 dmg/hit. The loot was buried in 4 different places in the earthen floor and took several hours each to dig out by hand. Same with the Air Temple -- traps and Large guardians. (The characters would only be 4th level at this point).
-The Water Temple was insanely difficult. The Juggernaut, attacking first by surprise, could roll and crush for 10-100 dmg, or flail with up to 16 'arms' attacking as many as 4 characters with 4 attacks per, each doing 2-16 dmg. While engaged, the Zombie/Gargoyles would commence aerial attacks, then priests and bugbear troops would slide into reserve positions. The Temple guardian was some weird creature from the Elemental plane of water who cast an illusion of a Titan needing rescue from chains in a pool of water (which was actually highly corrosive acid), while mentally Dominating the player characters to jump into the 'pool' (of acid) to rescue the illusionary Titan. Death by drowning or by acid, take your pick.
-There were quite a few 'cursed' magic items just waiting for a new owner to torment.
-Finding Thrommel was nigh impossible. Killing him by accident was a distinct possibility. Obtaining Scather required surrendering Fragarach, which would only work in Thrommel's hand anyway. And Scather was very tame compared to the ToEE version; it was a good sword, but not great. The Frost Brand was 10 times better, if you could get it.
-1st ed. character level advancement was incredibly difficult compared to 3rd ed. Fighting (and winning) the entire temple and nodes, a group of 4-5 adventurers would be 8th level at most when advancing to confront Zuggtmoy.
-1st ed. had no nifty Feats like 3rd ed. Combat advancement was much slower, for example, Fighters increased +1 "to hit" every 2 levels, which is the equivalent of the Wizard/Sorcerer's "poor" combat advancement of 3rd ed. Additionally, a 'critical hit' only created double weapon damage, NOT doubling bonuses or pluses of any kind. (3rd ed "criticals" have potentially absurd results, my opinion). Monsters of equivalent HD, however, had distinct combat advantages.
-Ability scores for characters maxed out at 17, 18, or 19, (depending on race) period.
-Zuggtmoy was virtually impossible to defeat, being a god/demoness with spelllike abilities that activated merely by thought. She could, however, be defeated by destroying the Orb. But the Orb could not be destroyed until all the gemstones were found by searching the Nodes, which were nearly impossible to escape (except by luck and experimentation) once entered. The Water node was 90% underwater. The Node guardians of the gemstones were sneaky, sly, and could always fade away into the floor/walls of the node element. Constant Random encounters in the nodes nearly prevented effective resting for healing and re-memorizing spells. And didn't someone mention Dragons? and Giants? c'mon, we're only 6th-7th level here.
-Speaking of random encounters, there were two on the road between Homlett and Nulb, as well as one between Nulb and the Temple. The Temple courtyard was also full of encounters (every march turn) with nasty critters, hidden in amongst the rotted foilage and detritus.
-Once entered, the Temple forces 'grew' by constant recruitment, and if not heavily pressed, the adventures would find previously 'cleared' areas re-populated, and the temple armies steadily increasing. Once entered, traps and ambushes would be set. For being 'chaotic', the sub-temple forces were very intelligently managed.

.... and so on.
From what I recall, the only saving grace was that most human temple guards were "zero-level" fighters, which entitled character Fighters to 1 attack/fighter level. And the Ranger class (modeled after Tolkien's "Rangers" in Lord of the Rings) were devastating warriors.

Thank you for the thread! as it inspired that little walk down memory lane ... and I will now slip back into the shadows. In all, kudos to Atari/Troika for bringing to life a thoroughly enjoyable rpg, especially attempting to stay 'true' (as possible) to the original content. And there are not enough glowing words of appreciation possible to the Co8 modders who revived and rescued a bug-ridden ToEE from the waste-bin of crpg death and certain obscurity.
Click to expand...

You describe the game of my dreams. Would love to see the PC game with that kind of challenges you mention.

sirchet · May 11, 2016

Why .... I remember when a Dwarf was a Dwarf, not a fighter, not a cleric ... he was a Dwarf!

Dwarf was his class, race, profession ... he was a Dwarf!

Now, I have to go back to guarding my lawn, damn kids and their sprinkler shananagans.

sigofmugmort · May 11, 2016

And an Elf was an Elf for race/class Ahh DnD as opposed to ADnD

sonofliberty · May 12, 2016

Oh yeah. Way back in the 1970s lol. What was the module with the island full of dinosaurs? I remember enjoying that one.

GuardianAngel82 · May 12, 2016

And Men were MEN and women were glad of it!

Daryk · May 12, 2016

I believe that was X1, Isle of Dread...

sonofliberty · May 13, 2016

You are right I think.

sigofmugmort · May 13, 2016

X1, Isle of Dread is the Module

sigofmugmort · May 15, 2016

Unlike in the Module, in the computer game you do not seem to get XP for freeing prisoners

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