Demons and Demigods and Difficulty

Are there stats for the Iuz', Cuthberts and balors? Would be pretty useful. Would also be nice if somebody would take a screenshot of the combat arena\s for planning the battle.

 

Those?
http://www.co8.org/forum/showpost.php?p=104901&postcount=18

 

The arena is the one in Verbobonc and can be scouted out when visiting the town.

 

Thank you very much, Conjurerdragon.

So sneak attacks apply then.

His speed is the standard 30ft right?

Anyone know where any of his special qualities come from (magic, supernatural,e.t.c)? Maybe it is possible to dispel or otherwise disable some of them.

edit: fixed a mistype.

edit2:

 

Just finished Demons and Demigods in 7.8 for the first time. Possible spoilers ahead.

I've beaten this quest in previous editions against 4 Iuz and 4 Balors (Don't usually play evil parties, so I've never faced 4 Cuthbert's yet.) This time through was much harder because I didn't have Scather (LN parties don't get it) or Lareth's Staff of Striking (it has been changed to/replaced with a club of striking that doesn't get the obscene bonus from greater magic weapon). And I don't use meld into stone or resilient sphere (just personal choice). The fight was kind of strange and I only succeeded because of some weird luck. I lost 2 out of 6 characters in this fight, but losing the first one was actually what saved the party. My rogue was the first to die, sandwiched between a pair of avatars. However, the avatars kept attacking her body since the rest of the party was behind the rogue. I guess the AI continued to see the rogue as the nearest threat, even though the rogue was dead. Anyway, this mistake let me concentrate on the other avatars and take them out. Some observations:

1. Readying a reach weapon usually stopped the avatars. Elmo had the holy ransuer and the rogue had the Spiked Chain of Love. Each of them would retreat, and ready an action to attack anything that moved. Several times this gave the PC a free attack and stopped Iuz from going further or attacking. This trick didn't work if the avatar made a successful tumble check to get past or if there was more than one avatar coming after the PC (how my rogue died.)

2. Most spells are very ineffective against Iuz due to the immunities, high saves, and tremendous spell resistance. Just to get through SR 35, you need a caster with full caster levels and spell penetration and greater spell penetration. This gives the caster +24 to the check to beat spell resistance, so 50/50 odds. There were a few spells which were fairly effective. Magic missile always hits as long as it beats spell resistance. Since each missile is checked separately, something almost always gets thru. Ray of enfeeblement applies a penalty to Str. The avatars will continue to hit, but at least their 10 attacks become more survivable. Ray of Clumsiness applies a penalty to Dex, making the avatars a bit easier the hit and confirm crit's on. Additionally, the penalties for each of these spells stack with themselves, so it is possible to strip and weaken an avatar substantially if the opportunity arises. Empowered or maximized versions of these spells work very well. Word of Law caused damage to each avatar I managed to beat the SR. Since damage from this spell was untyped, it bypassed the usual energy resistances. Holy smite would probably be similarly effective and the untyped damage from flame strike might as well. Surprisingly, the avatars can be afflicted by Stinking Cloud. The spell has no spell resistance and the avatars are not immune to getting sickened. The save for the spell is low (the spell is only 3rd level) but it works if the avatar rolls low for the save. Keep the the avatar occupied for a while (I used SM 9 elementals) and drop a stinking cloud on it's head. It may take awhile, but the avatar will roll low eventually and be out of the fight for several rounds.

3. Quicken spell was extremely necessary to buff the party. It allowed my PC's to run away and still get off a few useful spells (quick stoneskin or quick haste worked great). These few buffs allowed the party to survive long enough to set a few roadblocks in front of the avatars and summon some help. Speaking of buffs, heroes' feast is the only one that lasts long enough be cast before the party enters Asherah's mansion. The spell gives a few temporary hit points to each party member, which can made the difference in surviving the first few rounds.

So this is still an insanely difficult quest. It will be easier with a party better suited than mine was, but I don't imagine it ever becoming easy.

 

I actually won this one first time against the 4 Iuz avatars, but not through any particular skill. I came in with Heroes Feast loaded, but all the wrong spells and most of them used up. I did find Glitterdust useful, and distracting with summons, but the main reason I won it was because of a fairly major bug:

They killed one of my characters early on, then for the rest of the time, all four of them stood around his body. Though there were no animations, they were obviously attacking it, as the dice window showed continuous hit messages (but no damage as the target was dead). I was then able to pick them off with enlarged fighters with holy weapons.

 

Aha! That explains the hard time the Iuz avatars gave me the last time I played that far, Now that I know to expect it, it won't be so bad,

 

I've just met the 4 Balors with my CG party of 6 in 7.8nc. Scather causes freezing as in the Fire Node, but thats to be expected...it always reataliates when hit and the Balors give fire damage when hit. So, I'm going to have to think about this a while. I have no crafters, this time around, because crafted items were causing CTDs in the Hedrack Battle. I don't think you really need crafting after a few quests in NC because the spoils, and the shops (which are looking really good, thanks G). I haven't built any of my characters for a particular battle, because I think you need builds that suit the whole game and the spirit of the game as opposed to meta-gaming.

 

In 7.8NC I had the issue with the periapt of wound closure (described in another thread) keeping my dead thief alive on both occasions, and the randomised attack scripts only worked if someone else stood in range, for obvious reasons, so I think you need to modify it so it also doesn't attack unconscious characters - or at least those with non lethal damage above say 300 hps.

 

Well If I had not exploited a bug I think I could have battled Iuz 500 times without a victory.

The bug is with Frac sword in had put reselliant sphere on and the attacks of opportunity still pass through but you CN fighter takes no damage.

So Iuz basicaly deals himself 40 points of damage per swing x 8 attacks per round 320 points per round ....3 rounds they all drop.

 

I thought it was ridiculous.

It was insanely hard unless you used every exploit in the game and had just 1-3 PCs and not NPCs. And didn't mind one or two of those getting killed.

I killed Hedrack before he could summon Iuz in the Temple, and didn't really care that he Cuthbert didn't put on a useless show. I didn't need him killing a character or two just to be resurrected by Cuthbert then, and I most certainly didn't need to see 4 of him show up with an UNGODLY amount of power at the end of the game- so much for him being "weakened by the destruction of the Orb".

This, being the "big finish" to the new content, was an extreme letdown. After running it a few times with normal tactics, I considered Uber-exploiting to try it a few times, but I hadn't exploited at all during the game and I was not about to start at the very end.

An intense disappointment to an otherwise enjoyable Post Temple New Content run. :thumbsdow

 

I think it was added to the end for the few that like to figure out how to beat the unbeatable, (kind of like the Star Trek battle Captn Kirk beats as a student in the academy).

Myself, I have only fought it once and was quickly slaughtered, didn't even get to hear the fat lady sing or nuth'n.

Ever since I politely refuse her invitation. And we live happily ever after.

 

I just finished a game that was supposed to have a good balance in difficulty. So when I tried the Iuz avatars I had no chance since my characters where abou lvl 17.I decided to cheat here and use concole to lvl my chars up to lvl 20. But still no chance since the avatars ignored all of my summoned creatures as long as they could get a hand on one of my characters. This made the fight even harder compared to the first one I tried in 7.9 or so.
I finally managed to succed: Wizard cast invisibilty sphere, cleric summons monster. Avatar attacks monster before invisible characters. When summons are dead Avatars start to attack invisible characters. Their priority of what they attack is: 1: Visible character 2: Visible summons 3: Invisible character 4: Character with greater invisibility.
I don't know if this was supposed toChappen when changing avatar ai, probably to try to prevent boring exploit of stoneskin spells or similiar.

 

It takes while, but you can defeat the Iuz avatars about 90% of the time with the following method, which does not include any Meld To Stone or Ottiluke's Resiliant Sphere shenanigans. Also, no prebuffing or monster summoning is involved or necessary. Leave your armor and shields at the castle, as you'll need the extra speed and tumble capabilities, and his attacks are something like +62/+57/+52/... which will go through any armor class anyways. Remember, these things are just really powerful monsters with lots of spell resistance. The don't use death magic, or cause fear, or cause sickness, etc. Maybe in the next revision? By Beory no !!

The first two turns are critical, and where you are most likely to die, especially if initiative doesn't go your way. The most important skills/feats to have at this time, and really for the whole encounter, are "Tumble" and "Quicken Spell". Everyone is likely to take a single hit along the way in turns 1 and 2, but at near 20th level each character should be able to handle it.


Turn 1:

1. Cast Haste on everyone (or all equipped with boots of speed).

2. Cast Enlarge Person on one or two Fighters. One should have Scather, and the other a top line holy weapon. It can be done without Scather, but will take much much longer.

3. Get as many Stoneskins as possible on everyone, especially the guy with Scather. Wizards, Clerics, and Rogues with scrolls can do this.

4. Scatter like cockroaches. Don't clump together, especially in the middle, but stay in pairs if possible. This needs to be done carefully, as the Stoneskins require a touch to cast.


Turn 2:

This is the most difficult round to dictate. Depending on how initiative went, and who may have taken a nasty blow in round one, each character may act differently. If you are undamaged, risk getting bonked once to run a Stoneskin to someone. If you got hit do a Mass Heal, or run for safety and wait for one. Continue positioning yourself in a scattered way, drawing the avatars apart.


Turns 3 and on:

1. The two enlarged fighters each begin engaging a single Iuz, making their full attacks from 10 feet away, and being careful not to get surrounded. It is CRITICAL that they stay 10 full feet away from the avatars so the avatars can't get a full attack on them. Make a full attack, then do a 5 foot step and take a single hit. If they get you surrounded, or in a position where you will be prone to a full attack, use your superior speed and Tumble to scamper off towards a spellcaster to get buffed or healed, and then re-engage them a few turns later.

2. The non-fighers cast Mass Heals or Miracles on all your casualties, while continuing with the Stoneskins. Always cast something. If you find a character alone with no one to target, have that character give himself another Stoneskin, or drink a Heal potion (Mother Screng sells these, and each character should have 3 in their inventory) - this will aid him when he runs back into the fray.


The tide turns:

The dude with Scather should be able to take down the first avatar in four or five turns. Once the first avatar is down, it really gets a lot easier. At that point everyone has 2 or more Stoneskins, which makes the single blows become less severe. Each Fighter enages an avatar, while the others divert the third and continues with Stoneskins and Mass Heals. It take a while longer, but from this point on victory is assured.

Usually there is one casualty along the way - someone who took a critical hit, or got a double attack in the first three turns. But hey, it's the last adventure, so just Raise him and retire.