Demons and Demigods and Difficulty

Humm not sure why u are surprised i said i can hit the cuthberths 'well enough' at least 15bab class+4 bard's courage +2 barb rage&/greater wpn focus +2 flanking+3wpn craft +1wpn focus+3 belt of giant str+ 3/4/5 natural str/ bonus +2 mass bull's str +1 haste spell =~ +40 to hit plus what ever else & roll . So yep unless u try to make a pure wiz/sorc/unarmed monk hit in melee or ranged combat, whom ever has at least a 3/4 bab rate should hit like 1 of 4 shots or better(or so i recall...
Stalling the cuthberts long enough to kill them on the other hand isn't as easy :twitch: , adamant breast plate and stone skin helps so does the periapt of wound closure but then again not having a wiz/sorc and druid in the party is not recomended :evilgrin:

 

Btw can smb pls tell what party align u need to get what encounter ?? (plan on doing 1-2 of the harder ones; except iuz&cuthberth(again) with a wicker party and try the iuz/cuthberth encounters with a party that has the 'quality' mebers :wiz/sorc & druid

 

I just reached Demons and Demigods, received Iuz to fight. My party is at level 20, and I have 3 characters, so I suppose that is one of the reasons I lost so easily. Next playthrough I'll have 5~ PC's so it shouldnt be as difficult. My paladin's +3 shocking freezing flaming keen halbard managed to occasionally hit an Iuz for 20 damage, or do a crit for 50-100 damage, so if I only had more time, i would be able to win. Enlarge person, staying out of reach is a MUST, because if you let an iuz hit you 10 times a turn, you'll die. I cast stoneskin on each of my characters 6 times, and even then one turn of 10 hits took out maybe a third of that. Elder elementals looked puny when they died in 1-2 turns. The better summons were the mini node guardians, they sometimes lasted 2-3 turns. Next save I think I'll have a traditional party build with fighters and such, maybe enough to win. This is extremely hard, but I can see where you could beat the Iuz's, and the balor guardians sound beatable as well. However, St. Cuthburt doesnt sound very possible currently.

As a note, I did manage to hit Iuz with stinking cloud in the temple at level 12, and it sickened him. So a theoretical strategy could consist of mind fog + cloudkill + stinking cloud on them, and then wailing away at them.

 

i still have A LOT to learn about the game, but i can tell you that this mode needs some serious balances;
I mean, everything is doable but something is too easy, then again another thing is too hard...
example is 4 avatars of Iuz, i mean i beat them but that was the stupidest fight in history of gaming.... i just put otiluke's resilient sphere onto my wizard (since hes useless due to spell resistance and preferred target to Iuz) and just took them down one by one, without using any party member but my Scatcher fighter ^^ since hes the only one that can actually hit Iuz...
i am not quite sure how on earth, with a standard 5 man party, could you defeat them without, well i can say for safe, glitching the thing....
Scatcher and Fragarach are fun weapons, but basing all the game on them isn't really fun... limits the choices cause you HAVE to have a weapon that always hits (max expertise * power attack with ease) ^^
Legendary items like that really limit the game's choices

well i know its not topic related, but i will allow myself to continue P

Crafting should really be removed from the game and added as a feature to a vendor like dwarf guy in verbobonc (i can sense that that's what you aiming for)
and i am not quite sure yet what stacks and what doesn't cause it seems my game broke at some point (think it was when i fought drowes and used holy might, since that my cleric with longsword had longspear reach, eh???)
i mean, related to crafting, i myself just recruit another PC, power lvl him somewhere, like in WotGS and craft shit that i need with him, not wanting to "screw up" my main chars

i was playing with lawful good party and WotGS was like LOL easy, why ? i just blasted them all with Holy word, don't know if that should even be possible ?
also the dwarves in quary ??? holy word = Ge Ge

Zuggtmoy has too much summons, i wanned to fight her in full strength (completed vanilla, skipped her, and at party lvl 20 waas stupid to destroy the skull)
at some point it over exceeded max amount of combatants :/
Whole game contains too much summons, imo you should put a bigger cap to that

i had several fail games, first try i screw up saving in battles, and some of my quests didnt trigger properly os i restarted whole progress
second try i belive charmed slavers broke my game
once i restarted just cause ghosts never appeared in my castle, it happened on my last game(with longsword cleric insane reach) but i just didn't have stomach to play it all over again.... i just resumed while it was broke to see the outcome....

Game knows to break while u save with "turned" undead had an ooc shadow that i didn't see, and it breaks for sure when u have a dialogue going ... example is Lareth's speach when he eneters ...
et cetra, lotta things !


ill play game with Chaotic good tomorrow again, if anyone is interested in my more detailed feedback, im happy to PM you guys??

 

Saving while in combat or saving in a random encounter map are both known to screw up your game, just avoid doing that and see what happens.

 

Hehe, just tried this. 6 PCs at 20. I'm not gonna bother again - perhaps a completely min/maxed, powergamey party could dredge through this, but that's about it. One Iuz has always been a handful already, four is just pushing it. Your best fighters could maybe hit 1-2 times per round, while the avatars WILL hit you 7 times, regardless of your AC. Meaning you die in 1-2 rounds unless you have Periapts or roll good initiative and have enough time to cast damage immunity spells. But, considering there isn't any in-game mechanic for aggro control to ensure that it's the damage-immune characters who get attacked, this is just not doable. I actually did have all 4 Iuzes attacking my stone melded Cleric at one point, but anyone else who got into melee range to try to deal some damage automatically became the priority target. Meaning you have to have archers with a couple thousand arrows each taking potshots and hoping to hit. No thank you.

Maybe someone will get a kick out of it, I don't think I'll be coming back. I just don't see any way of beating this without abusing every exploit available.

 

Fought Iuz(x4) as a Party of 5 level 20 PCs (no NPCs with me at the time), used max-level summons for meatshields (like, summoned Elder Elementals, Balors, other greater demons and things), meatshields died faster than I could summon them, party could barely damage the avatars, nearly killed a single one, before I was cut to ribbons. Does seem a Bit too hard.

(In comparison I fought the slavers beforehand and found the fight moderately easy)

 

Greetings to all- first post from long-time lurker.
Firstly, thanks to all at Co8 for their work on this game. I remember playing the PnP version in the late 80s, and this version has introduced me to 3.5.
As to the question of the avatars battle, I found it moderately easy (vs 4x Iuz). I do use Scather, which some may see as an exploit, but tbh I can't see a way of hitting Iuz with any reliability otherwise (did manage a few hits with wands of true strike crafted by my wiz 19 and used by other characters who took wiz/ sorc 1 as an experiment to try out this idea). My other tactic (again arguably an exploit) is taking advantage of Iuz's decidedly non-godlike inelligence in picking his targets. The first few rounds have to be pretty tightly controlled in terms of everyone doing the right thing, but the plan works even if all 4 Iuz avatars get first attacks. Can post more if anyone's interested (once I work out the hide spoilers function).

 

I'm definitely interested. My plan to dimension door into the stands and shoot the four avatars from there ran into the inability to shoot from the stands.

 

@Nightcanon

I am interested in your tactics. You can use spoiler tags as described below:

"Just a friendly reminder folks, we do have a spoiler system in effect here and you can conceal your spoilers by wrapping a

Spoiler

tag around it.

Spoiler

spoiling text [/spoilerr]
I added an extra r to the second spoiler so the text would not be hidden.
When you wrap a spoiler bracket around your text it turns into the same color as the background and folks will not see it unless they high-lite the area. " - by sirchet

Thank you in advance!

 

So you finally claimed your existence here, welcome Nightcanon let's help others overcome <other lurkers> their aloofness in posting to this forum. :coffee:

 

Okay, quick check of spoiler hiding

Spoiler

Leia is Luke's sister!!

Apologies if that spoilt anything!

 

Okay, that seems to work
My tactics below:

Key feature

Spoiler

Iuz has stupid artificial intelligence. He seems to attack the closest thing to him, which means that he can effectively be taken out of the game for a round with a single Summon Monster 1 spell. First noticed this in the temple when, to my surprise, I seemed to be making a decent fist of a fighting retreat with only one death, before rescue by Cuthbert, due to my druid throwing cute furry animals in his way. Not really a complaint, especially as (surprise surprise) if all 4 avatars attacked threats in order and in concert, 4x 40th level would be unbeatable.

 

Party set-up as follows:

Spoiler

Jovian: Human Pal 20. Has CHA 20 so lays on hands for 100 hp healing. Also carries potion of Heal (can't remember where from) plus wand of Cure Serious and various other potions. Usually hits with Holy-fied Frostbrand greatsword from Fire Temple. Role in this fight: Healing/ initial decoy/ keeping out of the way. AC 26ish, ~200 HP

Aureleon: Elf Ftr 20. CG STR 26 (base 16, adjusted to 20 by 20th level, then Belt +6). Hits two handed with Scather (has Improved Crit but not Exotic Weapon Prof). Buffs to CON give 230 HP. Wears boots of speed from Greater Temple Troop Commander (IIRC) but seem to have broken them somehow, possibly by attempting to stack a Haste spell on top at some point.. Role: Hit Iuz with Scather (by the end of WotGS was hitting for ~80 regular, ~120 on criticals against normal foes, seems to do mid-40s per hit to Iuz )

Gethin: Dwarf Cleric 19 (bit behind after crafting all those Holy weapons). Lvl 6 spells: all Heal. Lvl 9: 2 Mass Heals (useful if if you can't get to Aureleon in time or don't want to risk attacks of Op) and a Miracle (just in case). Others pretty much Summon Monster (SM) n, but may be used as sponatneous cures. Wand of SM 1. Role: keep Aureleon alive/ Summon decoys. (No metamagic: quicken spell, which in retrospect is a bit of an oversight)

Alannah: Elf Wiz 19. ~90 HP- jsut abt manages to survive a single Iuz sneak attack if caught flatfooted- but should usually be able to avoid this. Not a specialist wizard (ie no opposition schools), but does lean towards conjuration. Relevant feats: Augment Summoning, Metamagic: quickened spell. Spell selection: ALL Summon Monster n, apart from a couple of Stoneskins, a couple of Hastes, and all Lvl 5 spells are quickened SM1. Also has a wand of Stoneskin (always useful to have)

Magda: Human Ftr19 Wiz 1. Took a level of Wiz around 12th level as a way of getting more allies on the battlefield quickly (using a wand of SM1) and as someone to use the wands/ staves that I was finding. Otherwise usually a reach/ utility fighter using a Glaive. Has wands of SM1 and Stoneskin. Role inthis battle: Summoner, occasional buff

Njalla: Halfling Rog 15/ Rgr 5. Usually does sneak attacks; role here: keep out the way apart from as an initial decoy

Incus: Dwarf Ftr 11, Brb 9. Initially my Tank: good CON, Hvy Armour and Tower sheild. By this stage best AC in group (30) with Full Plate +3, Heroes Sheild +3 and a +2 Ring of resistance. Role Here: Initial decoy if necessary (has 240HP) but also carries the Golden Skull so can cast Stoneskin x1 and can summon one each of Water, Air, Fire elementals, so also has a Summoner role