Darley, worst built sorceress ever

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by taltamir, Apr 19, 2010.

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  1. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt Veteran Member

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    Unless you wanna argue "field identify", you go to a shop, and if you identify stuff there you get a popup message "already identified" for items nonmagical and identified. Plus, they look different enough most of the time that you can figure it out anyway; or you can equip and see if there's any bonuses.
     
  2. taltamir

    taltamir Established Member

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    I said you go to a shop and everyone else said "nono, field identify is awesome"...

    besides.. if you find a wand of identify it is cheaper to use it then to sell it and then pay 100gp per identify in shop.
     
  3. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt Veteran Member

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    Depends what we're arguing, man ;) In this case, we're talking about the usefulness of Detect Magic in TOEE, which is close to 0.
     
  4. taltamir

    taltamir Established Member

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    you are simply wrong about this.
    I have used the spell many times. Now as an experience player i don't need it anymore, i just know... but I used to need it to be able to tell.

    also, you cannot have it both ways. it does not "depend on what we are arguing". Either it is useful or it isn't. If you say it isn't then you contradict some of your arguments from before about the usefulness of field identify castings. (which is also something I used to do before I stopped caring about about the passage of time... and noticed that you can use a store to "cheat" it by hovering over items to see if they are or aren't magical)
     
  5. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    Sorry, Taltamir, I'm gonna need examples on this. What is there in the game that needs a 'Detect Magic' that is not patently magic from its description, eg 'magic ring', 'radiant jockstrap', 'this is a scroll'? I can't tihnk of anything.
     
  6. taltamir

    taltamir Established Member

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    well geez... I just deleted all the old saves :(.
    I am pretty sure "oogrist belt" is one... (belt of acid resistance or immunity, forgot which)...

    thing is, there are tons of named items.
    Wollington's bow
    oogrists belt
    laraths boots
    laraths (tons of other items)
    whats-his-names mace (the fire priest's underling)
    etc etc

    the thing is, MOST of these are NOT magical. Larath's boots are just that, mundane boots. But some of these ARE magical.
    You use detect magic (or cheat at the store) to tell which are magical, and only cast identify on those.

    On my early playthroughts I ended up wasting identify castings by casting it on items that were named but NOT magical.
    I also ended up wasting it on magical items that were self identifying actually (larath's staff of striking IIRC for example, is automatically identified upon pickup, no identify needed)

    Sure the majority of generic items are named "magic sword" or "magic ring" etc before identification which makes it plainly obvious... but there are exceptions.
     
  7. Necroticpus

    Necroticpus Cthulhu Ftaghn!

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    Hedrack's boots and helmet are super duper magic items but you would never know by hovering over them. +5 to reflex saves and +5 to will saves is pretty awesome.

    What would a radiant jockstrap do? +3 to charisma? Immaculate conception when character wearing it thinks "impure" thoughts? And what are the prerequisites to craft it? Is there a fertility sphere? Obviously it would have to be Aphrodite's or Hera's or someone like that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2010
  8. taltamir

    taltamir Established Member

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    Those are not supposed to stack with cloak of resistance. And every single one of my characters is wearing a cloak of +5 cloak of resistance.
    Also boots of speed...
     
  9. Necroticpus

    Necroticpus Cthulhu Ftaghn!

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    Oh. and Hedrack's gauntlets give +6 strength, freeing up his belt slot for something other than a +6 strength belt. I always just give the extra belt to the cleric.

    But really, even crafted items become fairly meaningless when you're cruising the upper levels, like between 16 and 20. Items just cannot compete with the bad assyness of all the feats, health, attacks, etc. At that point, you could give your fighter)s) a rusted form of whatever weapon they use and they will still murder anything with it.

    Don't even get me started on the Weird spell.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2010
  10. taltamir

    taltamir Established Member

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    Regardless, my point is that some named items are magical (like hedracks and wollingtons) and others are not (larath's boots and antonios mace).
    Only way to tell is detect magic, waste 100gp by casting identify, analyse dweomer (at high level), or cheat a the store (I don't like cheating)... or remember from previous adventures.
    If you don't know about the store cheat or refuse to use it OR want to do field identify... then there you have it.

    but then you lose on the +6 to dex gloves. which amounts to +3 reflex, +3 AoO per round for melee (you do have combat reflexes right?) or +3 to attack with ranged, and +3 to AC (mithril FTW)

    For meleers the belt slot is for +6 str, the hands get +6 dex, the next +6 con (or wisdom if cleric or druid), and freedom of movement is acquired via a ring.
    For non meleers I use a +2 str ioun stone and use the belt slot for the unbelievably good vest of escape.
     
  11. Necroticpus

    Necroticpus Cthulhu Ftaghn!

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    I don't really care enough about a game I've played since 2005 to completely suck all the good qualities out of it, rendering it down to playing a strictly math based game. I just can't do it and have no interest in doing it. A computer math program to teach youngsters is what your way amounts to me. If that's what floats your boat, that's cool. For me, it would be the equivalent of sorting my paper money by the serial number, tabulating it in an excel spreadsheet and constantly changing it every time I spent money. I mean, why not just use the console and give yourself the best of everything that could possibly affect any skill check in the game so you aren't constantly looking for a way to squeeze out another +3.142536 to you health or whatever else?
     
  12. Ranth

    Ranth Established Member

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    Amen brother. Honestly, I dont use half of the buffs and spells people on the forums talk about. I am sure it would be fun to spend 4 mins buffing for each fight, but I would rather load up on offensive spells and wreck havok. The only fight I buff for is the Balor, but thats about it.
     
  13. TerMany

    TerMany Member

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    This comment seems unnecessarily harsh, and I'm somewhat amazed that not many people think this is a personal attack. There must have been a better way to have worded it without sounding so offensive.

    Now with that said...

    I definitely agree. Somewhere along the way, it just stops being fun. Feels more like work than entertainment.
     
  14. taltamir

    taltamir Established Member

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    And what exactly does anything you wrote have to do with darley hainvg:
    1. broken spells that don't work?
    2. Missing spells that a sorcerer her level should have?
    3. sucky spell selection?
    4. sucky feats selection?

    I don't use the console to give myself a bazillion money and XP because:
    1. That would be cheating
    2. That wouldn't be fun
    3. I am not trying to be some uber min maxer here. I don't know where you got the idea that I am, or that I somehow "suck out all the fun"

    In fact, utilizing crafting rules, feat selection, and reach rules to maximize the ability of fighters to CONTRIBUTE in anotherwise magic dominated game is a lot of fun... The classes are actually BALANCED somewhat when played that way...
    In a non crafting party the casters dominate and the non casters are dead weight...

    I tried to take on darley, I said "meh, who cares, i will just have fun"... the thing is, she is SOOOOO bad and so worthless in combat that I did not have fun... every combat round I just skipped her turn, because she has nothing to contribute.
    And just an FYI, I have managed to find use for monks in a party.

    The only fight I buffed up for was the final boss.
    I don't know what makes you think I spend minutes buffing before every battle. Or that I enjoy spreadsheet math over actual gaming.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2010
  15. Necroticpus

    Necroticpus Cthulhu Ftaghn!

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    Nothing I wrote in my last post has anything to do with Darley lacking all of the above mentioned points. I was responding to the derailment topic of the usefulness of detect magic on items that you cannot tell are magic, which then degenerated further into mathematical formulas of how to best min/max. That's when I lost interest.

    If we're moving back to Darley, my view is that life contains wondrous variety of every stripe, positives as well as negatives. Every character is not the same. Most every living thing has the option of free will. It's the variety of differences that make the game entertaining. I suppose demons and devils and all other creatures are afflicted the same way as all other races, having differences in every aspect of their beings. Maybe Darley is most comfortable with the spells/skills/feats she does have and the ones she doesn't were an active choice on her part not to pursue, for any number of demonly reasons. Could be that she didn't want to draw the attentions of the failor in the node so she wanted to take the aspect of a church mouse and not be seen as a threat.

    If I were the failor and I knew of a fairly powerful creature running around in the node that could use powerful magic, I would most likely take steps to eliminate that threat. I wouldn't care about the fire creatures because they couldn't hurt me at all almost. It would be suicide for any of them to confront me, but a sorcerer that could cast more than mere fire spells would be a different story.

    Darley, I'm almost positive, would love to get out of the node, but to do that she would have to use the portal that the failor guards. I would try to align myself with a group of dumb@$$ adventurers in the hopes that they could keep it busy while I made my escape. Once outside and free of restrictions, I would memorize all my most powerful spells and start doing what succubus sorceresses do, like forming a group of danceline cheerleaders and head off to the blood wars or something.

    Another thought. I think Troika, in their infinite wisdom and praise be unto them, made Darley the way she is because adding a powerful NPC to the party at that late stage of the game would make the failor encounter and anything else that came after that a little easier. Less of a challenge.

    Maybe by adding another powerful NPC at that point, Co8 would maybe add a second failor to guard the portal. Now that would be something. Or maybe 3 or 4 pit fiends to play with. Ya, that's the stuff.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2010
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