D&D Alignment System and your ToEE PCs

Lord_Spike: Was that supposed to be an AoO?

 

It wasn't supposed to be anything other than an observation. Impressionable people read this stuff, and it helps them to have all the facts, including that some people don't know as much as they might claim. Or, claim to be more than what they really are...or say...or do.

Let's "keep it real", shall we?

:grin:

 

Lord_Spike: If I wrote about these two characters more than once every couple of years I probably would have gotten the spelling right.

Hell - in tracing my family history back in Cornwall to the early 1500's I found one family where they spelled our last name - Eade - differently for each of the children. They had Ead, Eads, Edde, and even Heade - since the "H" is silent in some places in Britain - all in the same family. Obviously literacy was not one of the strong points at that time.

I don't make rash assumptions about your knowledge, please don't do so about mine.

 

I can see how it's easier to play as yourself, I do it mostly also. But it can be enlightening and cathartic to get out of your own head and express opposing ideologies through role-play. Even the best among us has some not-so-nice feelings and desires. The outlet of these feelings and confidence in your actual RL sentiments is like a high when a session has gone exceptionally well. Give it a try, if you choose, as an experiment in self discovery.

Dude, how old are you? If you don't mind me asking.

 

Sokaljin: Im 78. See post 100.

I can see your point about trying some new outlook. It is really worth a try.

That's why I do Renfaires - It gets me away from reality for a while.

 

I've never met a gamer that age, it's good to know that people of all generations can be open to it. My father-in-law turns 79 on the tenth of this month, and is of the mind that it's either a waste of time or just plain bad for the soul ( depending on his mood).
Renfairs are a great way to escape the everyday, there's an annual one here in Co., but I've never been. Not because I'm against them or anything like that, just haven't done it. I did particpate in Aamtgard for a time, it was a lot of fun, and great excercise to boot. I had to quit due problems with some members of the group, plus my work schedule made it more of a PITA than it was worth.
What I was saying in my former post, though, was playing alignments different from your personal ethos can be a release. It doesn't have to a radical divergence, just enough for you to get into the acting or 'role-playing' aspect of the game. A shift of a single step (e.g. from law to chaos or good to neutral, not both). I know law to chaos is two steps, but you get the idea. Even if you don't change the alignment playing a different personality type within the same one is fun, sometimes more-so than usual.
But, as they say, it's up to you. As long as you're having fun at all, you're doing it right.

EDIT: Wow, I read this whole thread tonight, and missed the entire top of this page somehow. Sorry:grin:

 

OK, I took my time and red the first posts of this thread, so now I know I have nothing to say about Good, Evil and the Meaning of Liff that hasn't already been said by someone in some posts [sorry, but I've no wish to check the correct tenses for that phrase].

Runfredde: for understanding something out of our experiences, literature is the best (being its main purpose). Fixed labels usually end up in becoming prejudices, that do not help at all.
Of course aligments started out as very generic: they were only two: Legal and Neutral (Chaotic was considered "unsuitable for player characters").
But with AD&D and the two axis they started to get very invasive. To worsen things manuals describe in a very detailed and univocal way how aligments are supposed to work. And then people started to disagree about what they actually mean. Really you never have been said "You're playing against your aligment"? Heck, I've been said even "you're playing against your class" (and I was a fighter!).
Of course I do: I play my character, not an aligment or a class: these are only game mechanics to allow me to know how my characters fit in the rules, not how they should think. For istance: if I want to play an idealized chivalric knight, I would play an idealized chivalric knight (just as one of my players plays an idealized samurai), not a Lawful Good Fighter. Chivalric Knights, even idealized ones, albeit being Paragons of Virtue, did not necessary follow the Lawful Good ethics as in the books: they would kill another Idealized Chivalric Knight for an insult, they would not give no mercy to people that have no honour, etc.
I hope I made my point clear, for once Just another thing: try other RPGs. Many are really fun.

Vendegaar: I have no problem in thinking an 80yo at an historical reenacting, I just have problems visualizing someone older than 50 playing a role playing or computer games. This is completely out my experience (direct or indirect), so I have very little tools for sorting it out.
About Crowley (regardless on how that's spelled out): I still think he did not know an iota about ancient religions, symbology, occultism, esoterism, etc. I did not find his books difficult, I just felt I was wasting my time with a charlatan. If I really have to spend my time reading babblings, I would without doubt prefer Julius Evola, that at least had some vague idea about what he was saying. But only if whitin 1d6 Km there's no Giorgio Galli book, since he doesn't babble at all (altough he sometimes pushes his theories a bit too much).
About Druids: this would carry us a bit too far, so it should be better to drop it. But don't you agree that D&D druidism is more akin to banalized shamanism rather than Celtic Druidism (for the little we know of it - that's almost nothing)?

 

Believe me I have tried literature, if its outside your experience, the way I use it anyway means I can't concieve of what you are saying, so am excusing myself from making a judgement.

Trying other roleplaying games, for me that is a no, it took me long enough to learn the rules to this one and I don't really even play this one anymore, except on a computer. To play roleplaying games you need to have the time and a group of people to play with. A good part of role-playing is social interaction IMO.

I couldn't find anywhere in what you were saying that the alignment system was anything other than a tool and a rule. Sounds like you use the tool perfectly, you just don't want to have to deal with the reality of rules. Which is you can't just do what you want whenever you want to without consequences. Sucks doesn't it.

I would agree that the proliferation of rulebooks, is spoiling the game, but rules are like that, look what the lawyers have done with justice

 

Many rpg's don't even have an alignment system, which seems more natural. It allows players to react w/o worrying about such preconcieved notions. They can develop a persona for their characters that encompasses the myriad contradictions of human nature. DnD's system is IMO a framework to build that persona on, not so much a hard and fast rule.

 

All I'm saying is check your facts if you're not sure before you put it out there like it's gospel. If you've written about them so much, why all the confusion? You got BOTH of them wrong. If you've gotten that part wrong, what else did you miss? Those names didn't morph into something different by generations of mispronounciation & misunderstanding...it was you. So, it's not so rash a judgement as you might have people believe. When I'm wrong, I admit it - I don't try to make it look like someone else's fault.:no:

 

Lord_Spike: You sound just like the preacher that turned me away from Xtianity over 70 years ago - Repent, Repent - when I asked him why Easter came on a different day each year. Didn't anyone know when Jesus rose from the dead?

After all Dr. John Lightfoot and Bishop James Ussher determined in the 17th century that the earth was created in 4004 BC, and even fixed the date of the expulsion of Adam and Eve from the garden of Eden. All without witnesses. Why is there confusion over an event that was supposedly seen by thousands? (And YES these names are spelled correctly)

I have already admitted that I misspelled the names. Big deal. No one but you had any problem with it. Does it make you feel good to catch such minor errors? Sounds like a personal problem to me.

 

Precisely why I used that word in my reply. Is it irony or sarcasm? A little bit of both, perhaps. Depends on one's perspective.

So do many others, which is why I take such umbrage to anyone claiming certain knowledge which is in truth somewhat lacking. People tend to believe what people who put themselves out there as "knowledgable" or "experts" say...when in fact it is just so much more of the same kind of bullshit. Puts them in the same category with the tele-vangelists who "have sinned against you", IMO. Just another "fakir" faking people out.

Edit: Just read your post, there, V. My distaste for what you've posted has nothing to do with what you think it does. I just don't care for your BS. Spelling isn't the issue - it's only a clue to your desire to spread half truths to fool the gullible. If your "knowledge" can't stand up to the scrutiny, then post about something else.