D&D Alignment System and your ToEE PCs

heh. sociopaths. the sociopaths that have had the most impact on my life so far has been two exgirlfriends and an exboss (whose job i took over). Far too many of my friends in the past have been sociopaths to varying degrees.
some of them worse than others, but what they all have in common is that none of them, absolutely none of them, have the capacity to realise how much they're not only causing other people hurt, but that's they're messing up their own lives too. They truly believe they're innocent somehow. That none of what goes wrong in their lives is their fault, and if they happen to hurt someone, it's the person's own fault for feeling or getting hurt in the first place. And the person they hurt was out to get them somehow anyway, so there. Also, there's some greater cosmic plan in motion that is set up to work against them. They have no responsibility, because it's the universe's fault.

Yeah, they're THAT messed up. heh.

If I were to give them an alignment in the D&D sense, I'd suppose it'd either be neutral evil or chaotic neutral. i'd say my exboss and first exgirlfriend are both more leaning towards the neutral evil side because of their calculated exploitation of other people, while the second exgirlfriend is just sort of completely unable to accept responsibility for her extremely impulsive actions (which are somehow perfectly logical in her mind), but not out to really use/abuse anyone as such.


this one time, there was this drug dealer who tried to shoot me because he felt i had insulted his lifestyle. his gun jammed though because he was holding it wrong (it was a glock and he was holding it sideways - almost upside down). i'm not sure what his alignment would have been. "Really Stupid" maybe?

 

Glocks don't do that for that particular reason... there must be another explanation.

Aircraft weapons were what jammed when exposed to negative G forces, not merely being upside down. The weapons would work as long as positive G's were maintained relative to the weapons during aerial combat. This has long since been corrected with the advent of electically operated mechanically driven cannons. As long as there is power to an undamaged weapon, it will fire.

Glocks will fire dirty, upside down, underwater....whatever. So will many others. He may have altered the weapon in such a way as to reduce it's functionality; or perhaps his ammo was old and/or crappy (...most likely crappy - old good ammo is often better than new crappy ammo). Or he may not have even had a round chambered. Whatever the case, him being a really stupid person was much to your advantage.

 

Nod. That drug dealer was and, probably, is still an idiot. Yes, watching too much television makes people dumb. Him holding any pistol sideways or upside-down to shoot a pistol is retarded. It's not cool to do that, it's STUPID!

Anyway, Moosehead, I am glad he is as stupid as he is and most like will always be which allows you to be out of harms way and not in a hospital or morgue.

 

My mate whos a weapons tec in the navy said that you can fuck your glock by filing some pin or something to make it fully auto.

My uncle who's in the air force was had a story where him and some of his unit were shooting targets and they got permision to hold their glocks sideways, they all went from crack shots to bloodly useless.

 

The problem with the typical dnd evil character, is that they do NOT act out of selfishness, but out of MALICE.

A selfish person will not single themselves out to be "crazy evil sociopath killer" because they will know nothing good will come out of it. Instead they will strive for places of power and never comic a crime in their life, and likeley donate to charity.

In a world where you can get great personal power why should one risk body and soul for some pittance gained from a master?


As for real life sociopaths, do you define them as people who have absolutely no empathy, or as people who will not feel any remorse for killing another person, because the two are different and not always overlapping. Is it not possible to have an altruistic sociopath who beleives in social order and supplying aid to others, yet thinks of people (including thgemselves) as nothing but animated flesh and will not loose any sleep over running a pedestrian over?

 

so they just screw you within an inch of the law

 

...or even more to the point, screw you according to the law, and everywhich way possible within the law.

 

Master as in demons and stuff, not as in someone whom you apprentice to.

if someone screws you within an inch of the law. Is he evil? what if he is doing it to amass wealth to support a noble cause?

And if someone screws you within an inch of the law, because of SELFISH reasons. is he evil? what if when faced with making money in atrocious manners he refuses.
Selfish within his owen code of conduct, not universal law.


What people usually call evil is creuelty. not selfishness. Torturing kittens for fun. Raping. Murdering people in front of their loved ones. etc. It might be perfectly legal to torture kittens in certain societies, they are considered no more then food there. But a person who shows undue cruelty is considered evil. While those who act against it are considered good. But where do you draw the line?

Does eating a cow that was sedated before butchery constitute a non evil act if eating one that was not is considered evil? (if, it might not be considered evil)
Or is it only the buther who is at fault, and only if he inflicts pain for his enjoyment and not for food. (IE. If you kill it to eat it, not evil, if you kill it to watch it suffer, evil).


By the definition of cruelty, evil is nothing more then "a danger to society"

 

I said it before, but I'll say it again. Good and Evil are abstract concepts created by humans, and as such their definitions change with cultures and societies, or even with situations. The Ten Comandments originally only applied to the Twelve Tribes of Judeah (sp?). What Thou Shalt not Kill really meant was Thou Shalt not Kill Other Jews. It was perfectly acceptable, even commendable, to kill gentiles. The rise of Christianity changed that to Thou Shalt not Kill Other Christians, but it was perfectly acceptable , even commedable, to kill those of other faiths. Even Jews. Religion, as an institution, is just another form of social order, just like government, and religious rules, laws, and definitions of good and evil are no more inherent truths than governmental rules, and definitions of good and evil.

As for true sociopaths, it is true they will not feel any remorse for killing human being, but it is because they are incapable of seeing anything outside of themselves as a person. They are not killing a person. They may as well be squashing an ant. This is different than killing another person without remorse. While it may be possible for a true sociopath to promote social order and exhibit altruism (just to grease the wheels for themselves), it would be highly unlikely.

 

Actually it wasnt thou shalt not kill other jews. it was "Don't Murder". It was using simplistic language, not fancy stuff. And murder is very different then killing. It was perfectly ok to kill, only murder was bad. Now the question is, what is murder, is killing in self defense murder? is killing heratics murder? etc.

Anyways, according to jewish tradition for example, evil is cruelty. A jewish butcher is required to knock a cow unconscious before butchering it, bucause cutting its throat as it thrashes in their grasp and fight for their life is cruel, and will cause them to become jaded to the plight of others.

Many people suggested that true evil is selfishness to the exclusion of all other people's needs.

And lets not forget, the sociopathes, those who don't care for the plight of others at all.

I would also like to point out that not ALL people think of themselves as good. When was the last time you did something you KNEW to be wrong? Did you ever indulge in it? Some people do things they consider wrong because they enjoy them too much, and if other people end up suffering... well that makes them think of themselves as "bad", but they either don't care, or comfort themselves with knowing that there are many who are worse.


So... 3 types of supposed evil:

1. Sociopathes
2. Cruel people
3. Selfish people

3 types of personal view
1. I am good, its a necessity to do what I do
2. I am bad, I do things I know are wrong, but don't care
3. ... (people who never even BOTHER thinking about it, not everyone deals with phylosophy, and some people never question their moral alignment, ESPECIALLY if they dont have one).

Oh, and some nut cases would consider other various things evil... For example, you have the 7 sins those christians go about.

 

well meat does taste better if the animal wasn't stressed when it died.

 

As if canines worried about the stress they cause when devouring live prey animals...
:mrhappy: