Critical hit and damages.

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by wizgeorge, Nov 9, 2007.

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  1. wizgeorge

    wizgeorge Prophet of Wizardy

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    Whatever happened to critical hits where the pc lost an eye or limb? Didn't there use to be a table in the DMG for such a thing? I remember our party thief lost a leg and got a wooden peg. Then he got polymorphed into a weasel and we carried this weasel with a pegleg around until we got enough money to pay a cleric in Greyhawk to restore him. I know it cost big bucks. I suppose it would be difficult to implement something like that. Maybe something like the poison effects ,only permanent until restored.
     
  2. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    :blink: Well if you look at the models, you'll see that they end up with black eyes after each critical...

    Seriously though the problem with implementing this is recognising exactly when a critical hit has happened, through scripting. We should be able to do it but I have tried as part of my efforts to make NPCs shout their 'ha I scored a ciritcal on you n00b LOLZ kthxbai' dialogue lines and have not been able to get a handle on it. There are still unexplored avenues but so far nothing has worked.

    I would like to see the 'fumble weapon on critical miss' thing implemented too, but keep in mind these are not regularly implemented rules and may be viewed as house rules.
     
  3. Zebedee

    Zebedee Veteran Member Veteran

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    The old rolemaster system used to have this. Didn't realise DnD did too. Are they optional house rule things then Ted as you seem to imply?
     
  4. berzerker

    berzerker Random Passerby

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    If I recall correctly it is in the options section of the 3rd Edition (and presumably 3.5) DMG along with the "roll for armor class rather than asume 10" and alternate initiative systems; which if I understand correctly is what Ted refers to.

    As an aside; Zebe I played rolemaster too. In practice in PnP I found giving Pc's a "save" against fumbles - just as you must confirm a critical - gave good balance AND meant that agile or experienced characters still fumbled; just less frequently.

    Since those in the DMG are IIRC optionals, I'm sorry to say you're probably right those would be considered 'house'.
     
  5. Zebedee

    Zebedee Veteran Member Veteran

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    Thanks Berzerker.

    I'd really like to see the ideas Ted mentioned implemented, but I recall he spent a long time trying to get them to work.

    If it's house rules, then it's something for a very determined modder to try to do and put up as a separate modpack which isn't so much of a problem now because of the glorious frontend. Co8 releases have the fundamental requirement of being 3.5 standard.
     
  6. berzerker

    berzerker Random Passerby

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    I think you meant his critical hits part and I thought you meant his final statement about fumbles as well as criticals - if so sorry.

    and to the best ofmknowledge; no location-specific criticals (outside of magic weapon special effects) are "official" - wotc has made a few remarks on this.

    It can get confusing because alot of the "official" content is still not CORE content - they tried to keep the core rules pretty accessible and streamlined, with the tons and tons of supplements being official but optional.

    It used to be very much like this with the RPGA and Dragon magazine - most of the changes are in publication long before they end up incorporated into another "core" rules set. My personal concern is most of what i liked about 3/3.5 (the multi-classing freedom for example) is going to get overhauled by 4.0. But thats another tangent.

    Could you clarify for me; was Ted working on critical hits like Wizgeorge mentioned (or LAW/ I.C.E. style); or was his work the dialog he mentioned; or both?


    Good point about the front-end; letting people disable or use mods as they see fit is like to the policy of letting them decide which rules supplement to use in their game.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2007
  7. Half Knight

    Half Knight Gibbering Mouther

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    mmmh, i think that such a severe wound that requires amputation or the like it's too much just for a simple critical...

    Of course, i use the House rule of the "insta-kill" if you get two 20 in a row, just for critters...

    maybe depends WHo makes the critical or the damage taken: i left a Paladin of one of my players with one eye and hand less...but it was young dragon (and the two claw attacks where critical!) who made the mess, IIRC the two damage rolls where above the 30 points of damage each...

    there was also a sword similar to a Vorpal in AD&D: after a critical, it severs a part of the target body (this rolled in a table) and it's official, it's on the DMB

    Anyway, amputations are imposible or nearly, due to graphics system, it works as a mirror, you have half of a body...if with some way you erase one arm, in the visual you'll get BOTH arms cutted...i've cracking my head to have an equipable eyepatch, but instead of just one patch, you'll get two (that look like black glasses and your character becomes then full blind :p)
    i think it could be possible altering the 3D files...Good Luck with that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2007
  8. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    I was working specifically on dialogue, but both require you being able to interfere when a critical occurs, which means having scripts that can pick up that moment and divert it to something else. I never got any working.

    When does an "official optional" rule become a "house" rule, or not? Thats for the community to decide.
     
  9. berzerker

    berzerker Random Passerby

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    Berserk Badger RUNS to the dictionary to check the definition of "CRITICAL":Crazy_Tig

    BTW: Troika points out in the Docs that one of the changes they made is NOT implementing death from massive damage...

    Sword of Sharpness; yep. And there have been others than the well-known 2 from the core rules.

    @Ted:
    1) Would the critical event-trigger for "burst" weapons open a trail?

    2) Well; I don't even know if the RPGA still exists; but frankly that only came up at conventions and tournaments when people had to have SET rules. With 3.5 ultimately becoming obsolete; you'll get less and less guidance form that quarter; and i haven't even looked at any rules changes or errata since I moved from my PnP group - but what you're saying is in effect what every gaming group has always had to do - decide which rules to include.
    I had just figured it was Co8's goal to use the "core" rules; never thought to ask if you kept up with errata. You guys seem to have done well so far, "Canon" or not.
     
  10. Zebedee

    Zebedee Veteran Member Veteran

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    That's a good point Ted. If something like that was ever implemented in a mod, it could well be an issue similar to Liv's mod - possible to integrate if that is the wish of the community.

    I don't know my DnD rulebook stuff sadly. That's why I always call for the Spike and Kalshane when they are about and I am trudging yet again up the foothills of my ignorance ^_^
     
  11. berzerker

    berzerker Random Passerby

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    Well Zebes;

    don't go too hard on yourself -keep in mind theres been enough errata that they have a new compendium for 3.5 - and well; a new edition coming up.

    But jokes aside; the game has never been a static single thing - in effect it has always been "modded"; hell the game itself is a mod, really.

    If you have a desire to check out the current rules you can do it on the website: it even has the errata section http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rules

    I hope that helps if you can't find one of your esteemed advisors :)

    *btw turns out the RolePlayingGamersAssociation is still going.:wavey:
     
  12. Zebedee

    Zebedee Veteran Member Veteran

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    Thanks bezerker. Will check up on the rules when life gets a little less hectic :)

    Agree with your point about ToEE being modded (there's a whole list of changes from standard at the back of the ToEE pdf rulebook). But big changes which aren't 'standard' would have to be mulled over a lot as we get enough flak from people who don't understand some extra content is necessary in order to bugfix and want a 'vanilla' Co8. :sadblinky
     
  13. berzerker

    berzerker Random Passerby

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    Sorry Zebes - I was unclear -

    I meant that D&D itself has always been "modded" - IS constantly in that process- so not to down yourself for not keeping up with whats "official" - even though you were doing so jokingly.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2007
  14. wizgeorge

    wizgeorge Prophet of Wizardy

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    In the example I used the thief's dexterity went to 10 from 18 and was permanent. Poison effects strength and constitution but it goes away with rest. The DM also cut his climbing % in half. Changing the portrait would be too big of a hassle. Would be a good way to knock down an overpowered, arrogant holy-roller paladin(like mine).
     
  15. berzerker

    berzerker Random Passerby

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    george hold on..

    You mean.. having people HACK on your body with swords and axes and such might actually HURT you?

    Thats CRAZY talk! :rant:


    :) hey guys; look - george wants his thread back :):wave:
     
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