Crafting question

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by The Great Snook, Jan 9, 2007.

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  1. TimSmith

    TimSmith Established Member

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    According to the 3.5 DMG "only slashing or piercing weapons may be made keen." So, a bow can't be but its arrows could be. As for whether it works that way in this computer game, someone else will have to answer that one!
     
  2. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

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    bows do piercing damage, for some reason it works off the bow not its arrows.
     
  3. ShadowDragoon

    ShadowDragoon Advocate of Vengence

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    That's what I thought, but I was never really sure. I don't think the PHB outright says it anywhere.

    EDIT: Duh, of course it doesn't. The PHB doesn't cover weapon enhancements at all. :chew: I really need to browse through the DMG a little more...
     
  4. TimSmith

    TimSmith Established Member

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    Ammunition and bow enhancements overlap but do not stack. (i.e. a bow +1 with +2 arrows will only give +2. An anarchic bow+2 with +1 holy arrows will give both anarchic and holy damage and +2.)

    Whilst technically a bow does piercing damage, it is really the arrows that have sharp bits, so I think the spirit of the rules is that keen edge or the keen property is for the arrows, not the bow. However, strictly the bow itself does not seem to be outlawed from being keen by the RAW...
     
  5. krunch

    krunch moving on in life

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    D'oh, it's actually quite simple. A plus to hit and corresponding plus to damage of a bow could be that a magical bow allows for more accurate aiming and targeting where a better placed hit allows for more damage due to where a better hit strikes an opponent.
     
  6. Lord_Spike

    Lord_Spike Senior Member Veteran

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    If you just said that you think they should stack, then I agree with you, Kap'n. What's overlapping, eh, precious? Sounds fishy, yes it does...
     
  7. TimSmith

    TimSmith Established Member

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    We likesssss fisssh, yessss we doesssss:D In 1st ed, bow and arrow enhancements stacked, so +1 bow and +1 arrows gave you +2 to hit and damage. In 3.5 they don't stack but they DO "overlap" which means that enhancements of the same type (eg +x) apply the best one but don't add them, therefore +1 bow & +1 arrows leaves you with +1 to hit and damage (pointless). Extra qualities added to arrows and or bow again "overlap" such that holy arrows and holy bow only give you 2d6 against evil, NOT 4d6 but holy and flaming, for example, would give you +3d6 as they are different types of enhancement.

    Also, note that in 3.5 (totally unlike 1st ed) a +1 bow firing normal arrows confers the magical enhancement to its arrows, MAKING THEM +1 AND THEREBY BYPASSING DR X/MAGIC!!!! This is anathema to a lot of 1st ed players and not something I am personally too keen on either, but them's the new RAW.

    If you are saying that you don't mind the idea of making the BOW keen (as opposed to the arrows) because it is enchanted to make the arrows fly to a more vital spot more accurately, then I see what you mean. Good point! (heh heh).
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2007
  8. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    A Keen bow is just weird. Well, to me, anyways.
    I tried to wrap my AD&D brain around Prestige Classes, got as far as the first one, Arcane Archer. Guy with ordinary bow and arrows suddenly launches +1 magical attacks, if I understand it right. Go figure. :blink:
     
  9. TimSmith

    TimSmith Established Member

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    Yes, that's about right! The idea is that they have magical abilities to enchant their arrows on a temporary basis (which only works for them...) Sort of a free action, unlimited use spell when firing arrows. It even gets a higher bonus at higher levels. :shrug:

    From a balance point of view, you DO have to have at least 6 levels of fighter and 1 level of wizard before you can start taking the class (or 5 ftr, 2 wiz would work too). Plus you need to have focussed in some archery feats and you are giving up the opportunity to reach the more impressive abilities of your other classes. Still, many people think that most prestige classes are broken and the rules emphasise (DMG p176) that prestige classes are purely optional and always under the purview of the DM to decide if they are appropriate for their campaign.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2007
  10. Lord_Spike

    Lord_Spike Senior Member Veteran

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    Them's may be the RAW, but we doesn't have to buy their books, now does we, precioussss? Nasty new bookses, we hates them forever!!!
     
  11. TimSmith

    TimSmith Established Member

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    :notworthy Ha ha- you mean you can resist all the extra splat books filled with ever bigger & better & more broken (allegedly) prestige classes and spells? You are truly the old guard of 1st ed purity :notworthy
     
  12. Daniel

    Daniel Established Member

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    Great table, Allyx, thanks a lot!!!

    Hey, last time I was up to date - a year ago - there was some bug with, IIRC, cold damage being computed as negative damage and actually healing up the undead. Since none of you mention this here, has it by any chance been fixed?

    Also, I remember that some things - armor and shields I think - could only be crafted ONCE because of some bug. No chance to go back and improve that +1 buckler.

    Finally, you guys used to advise not to add any funny properties to armor - silent, shadowy,etc.

    So where are we at?


    Thanks! and thumbs up again. :gotmyatte
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2007
  13. erkper

    erkper Bugbear Monk Supporter

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    One of Spellslinger's awesome DLL hack fixes (which are in the 5.0.4 update, but not the 5.0.0) tackled the crafting issues. I believe he fixed most of the problems with crafting, including the free upgrading of armor and shields, and he fixed the damage types to be what they are supposed to be. The extra effects for armor work now, too - at least, the spell resistance does, I haven't tried the silent moves.

    One thing I've noticed that is still broken is the XP cost for crafting uber-weapons: it still costs negative amounts of XP and gold once the EEL gets over a certain point, effectively giving bonus XP and gold to your crafters.
     
  14. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    That particular bug is actually easier to exploit now, so extra vigilance should be exerted by those who do not wish to be branded as nasty useless cheaters. :p

    It used to be that you could craft your weapon to EEL 13 before hitting this exploit, now it kicks in after EEL 10 (the maximum allowed EEL in the rulebooks), as it turns out that you can't prevent crafting from occuring after a certain EEL has been attained (or would be exceeded).
     
  15. Daniel

    Daniel Established Member

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    Great news guys, bravo! :)
     
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