CONGRATULATIONS, BRITAIN

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ioannis76, Jun 24, 2016.

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  1. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    The fact the west is lining up to support the current fascist government of the Ukraine is certainly fascinating.

    Don't get me wrong, Daryk, I am not 'pro-Russian' or pro-Putin (I think he's a bully to put it mildly). But I don't buy into the, "we have to have an enemy - look, there's Russia!" mentality of foreign affairs.
    I'm just mindful of what happened the last time Russia asserted itself in the Crimea and the rest of Europe couldn't stomach that. Over 200 000 dead - just military casualties - and no-one today can even agree why it happened. Next time it won't be purely military casualties.
     
  2. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    As a British voter, and follower of the voting trend in London, where I live as a voter for the Remain campaign, the last 2 days have been something of a wakeup call.

    I did vote Conservative in the last general election (even though doing so did not switch my local constituency from Labour to my choice of ruling party) specifically to improve our chances of getting the Referendum vote on EU membership.

    On hearing the result of the referendum on Friday morning, I felt numb.

    I had hoped that the result would be a slim victory for remain as the polls had suggested would be the likely outcome, because while I wished to put the wind up the EU (I like many others was sitting on the fence as to which way to vote until practically the last minute) and make the EU sit up and listen to the masses of unsatisfied British voters, and the many other voters from other European countries in the EU. I would also rather be able to assist reform from the inside. And I suspect many Out voters did so expecting that In would win regardless. A landslide victory for remain would see our complaints brushed under the carpet.

    Now we face the prospects of Scotland, and Northern Ireland leaving the UK via their own referendums, and England and Wales going it alone in the big bad world alone.

    While it's not the result I wanted, it may still be good for the UK to go it alone, time will tell.

    I hope once both Conservative and Labour parties have had new leadership contests resolved, we will have a general election with one party opting for the leave EU policies, and another opting to ignore the non-legally binding referendum results, and offer an In EU alternative manifesto. How the country votes then may be different.

    Either way, we will find a way to advance forward. Time will tell.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2016
  3. WinstonShnozwick

    WinstonShnozwick Established Member

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    I think it's important that everyone gets to have their independence, so that each country can best provide for their specific needs and preserve their unique culture. Any negative effect of not being in the EU in my opinion is manufactured so that the EU can "sell" you the solution and keep you in their control.
     
  4. ioannis76

    ioannis76 Established Member

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    Exactly.

    Referenda are the will of the people, as expressed in a specific question. It doesn't get any more democratic than that, in my humble opinion. To have 2 parties, one clearly in favour of the EU and one clearly against it, is also good, but it might not express the view of the people IN THAT SPECIFIC QUESTION. People may be pro EU and vote for the anti EU party, for example, because of its opinion in immigration policies (perhaps the second biggest after the economy).
    To say that the result of the referendum (any referendum) must be ignored, is in my view a "hellenisation" of the political life of Britain. And I say hellenisation, because our government did the exact same thing in our referendum. 65% of the people opted for the anti-EU answer, and Tsipras took this result and twisted it around.
    Either way, it seems that the political construct that is the EU does not express our will, that is, the will of the peoples of Europe. It either needs to change or collapse, but we cannot have a EU that will only cater to the needs of Germany.
     
  5. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    I can't really comment on Greek politics as I must confess, I don't know enough about the situation to make an informed comment.

    In the case of this EU question in Britain at this moment in time, we currently have Scotland poised to either leave the UK and apply to join the EU as a separate sovereign nation as current EU legislation seems to require, or as their first minister hopes - remain in the EU but leave the UK, whether that would be the best for Scotland, the EU or the remainder of the UK, who knows.

    As far as a General Election goes, it need not be as simple as a In/Out question as we have many political parties who will no doubt put their own visions into whatever manifesto they come up with.

    Already the Liberal Democrats have stated that they would remain in the EU regardless of the referendum result if they were to win a general election before the article 50 was sought by the UK government official in charge. Which could be political suicide, or a massive coup for the 3rd largest party in the UK depending on the outcome of course.

    Labour and Conservative parties would first have to appoint new leadership, decide on policy and Conservatives would no doubt then call for a General Election to get the peoples vote on their choice of a way forward.

    While I personally did vote to remain, I do consider myself still very Eurosceptic, Leaving the EU is a huge risk, but it may not be worst thing in the world to happen, we'll see.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2016
  6. ioannis76

    ioannis76 Established Member

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    I think that the most dangerous thing is to remain in the EU. Scotland was in the UK long before the EU, therefore I don't think that the membership of the EU will turn the tide, because their entrance into the UK was not decided by having an EU membership. Besides, if they enter the EU as Scotland, they will be a small country, and we all know what happens to small countries in the EU (they become German protectorates). One could, of course argue that small countries are always someone's protectorates, but as far as overlords go, the Germans appear to be the worst of them all.
    I believe that this image here pretty much sums up the current situation in the EU (the Swedish suicidal guy jumping into the jaws of political correctness is the best part, imho)
    [​IMG]
     
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